Lifetime Air Filter - NO
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From: Northern California
Lifetime Air Filter - NO
I was listening to a local "car show" on talk radio. To make a long story short, the host of the show owns two busy repair facilities in the area. A question came up, about using the so-called "Lifetime" air filters, which we all have heard, but I won't mention by name. Let's just say it's an air filter, with two letters to the left and right of the "&" symbol. He warns against using any type of air filter, OR foam filter, where you use a light oil in order to "trap" the contaminents. What happens, is the oil residue ruins the mass air flow sensors. The oil residue, gets some kind of chemical "film" and the MAF's are toast. He was saying, people are shocked to discover this, and many Honda, Integra, Nissan, BMW etc, MAF's run $350-$650. People are on vacation, and their otherwise modern and dependable car is running crappy, 75% of the time he says are these oil coats used in the air filter. He also said, if they were clearly superior, all auto makers would use them as OEM. Anyway, just something I found interesting. I'll stick with my paper Purolator air filter, replacing it twice a year when the time changes... 
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Wichita
I suppose there's a remote chance this could happen if you over-oiled them. My first-hand experience with these filters, and on a turbocharged engine that pulls a lot of air, is that this has never happened. And I've used them for 15 years with good results.
Don't think that car makers are always trying to put out the best that they can. Read the book "Wheels" someday. It's all about the bottom line. Every part, every design change affects the price of the unit.
Ford got into trouble when they actually put a dollar value on a human life and said it would be cheaper to pay the lawsuits than make the changes necessary to make thier car safer. I believe it was the Pinto gas tanks.
Don't think that car makers are always trying to put out the best that they can. Read the book "Wheels" someday. It's all about the bottom line. Every part, every design change affects the price of the unit.
Ford got into trouble when they actually put a dollar value on a human life and said it would be cheaper to pay the lawsuits than make the changes necessary to make thier car safer. I believe it was the Pinto gas tanks.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Washington state
Auto manuf.'s used to use oil bath air filters. They quit for numerous reasons; size, placement issues, difficulty in servicing, cost to make, filtering efficiency.
The main reason most users go to these new oiled film air filters is claimed higher air flow, which only has a horsepower effect at higher rpms and horsepower demands. 99% of the passenger vehicles on the road never run at those high bhp output levels so the oiled filter is an economic waste but is an emotional ego crutch.
One secret that the oiled filter manuf.s hide is particle filtering size. To achieve the higher air flow, they make the inter fiber holes larger=larger dust and dirt particles getting into engine=higher engine component wear=shorter engine life.
For Baja 1000 1500 bhp engines with $100k per year mechanics to service, no MAF and 5k mile engine life, get an oiled filter. For the 6000 bhp fueled funny car with engine life measured in seconds, no air filter.
For the family passenger car that one expects at least 100k miles on engine and $200 MAF, use a high quality brand name aftermarket or OEM which will be made by one of the top aftermarket manuf.s.
More important than type of filter is how often it is changed/serviced. Dust/debris should not be knocked out of paper filters to "extend" life, damages and micro tears filter media especially around seals= more dust in engine.
The main reason most users go to these new oiled film air filters is claimed higher air flow, which only has a horsepower effect at higher rpms and horsepower demands. 99% of the passenger vehicles on the road never run at those high bhp output levels so the oiled filter is an economic waste but is an emotional ego crutch.
One secret that the oiled filter manuf.s hide is particle filtering size. To achieve the higher air flow, they make the inter fiber holes larger=larger dust and dirt particles getting into engine=higher engine component wear=shorter engine life.
For Baja 1000 1500 bhp engines with $100k per year mechanics to service, no MAF and 5k mile engine life, get an oiled filter. For the 6000 bhp fueled funny car with engine life measured in seconds, no air filter.
For the family passenger car that one expects at least 100k miles on engine and $200 MAF, use a high quality brand name aftermarket or OEM which will be made by one of the top aftermarket manuf.s.
More important than type of filter is how often it is changed/serviced. Dust/debris should not be knocked out of paper filters to "extend" life, damages and micro tears filter media especially around seals= more dust in engine.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Kansas
Originally Posted by Ed
The oil residue, gets some kind of chemical "film" and the MAF's are toast. He was saying, people are shocked to discover this, and many Honda, Integra, Nissan, BMW etc, MAF's run $350-$650. People are on vacation, and their otherwise modern and dependable car is running crappy, 75% of the time he says are these oil coats used in the air filter. He also said, if they were clearly superior, all auto makers would use them as OEM.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Durham, NC
The air filter being discussed was developed for Baja, where the OEM paper filters would rapidly clog. If these filters don't clog, the logical question to ask, where is the dirt going? The same volume of air & dirt is being pulled into the engine!
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Washington state
Originally Posted by Bob Ayers
The air filter being discussed was developed for Baja, where the OEM paper filters would rapidly clog. If these filters don't clog, the logical question to ask, where is the dirt going? The same volume of air & dirt is being pulled into the engine!
There are dozens of Mexican Baja scrap iron yards with Baja racing engines in them that cost more new than the whole yard is worth.
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Posting Guru
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From: Northern California
VanGo, another caller voiced your same opinion, about over-oiling the air filter. Doug Brauner, the radio host, stated he knows people do not oil the filter, to where it is dripping. Even small, minute amounts of the oil, can and will make it's way to the MAF sensor. He did say, a carburetor vehicle is unaffected. Here is a link to his website: www.thecarczar.com You or anyone else interested, send him an e-mail on this subject, as he is known to answer questions ASAP. Ed (www.thecarczar.com)
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From: Prince George, B.C.
Don't the & filters claim 98% fiteration? Then the *OGS claim a bit higher, supposedly they still filter better then the paper units ever will and allow more air through. I don't know if anyone has ever heard of the mean green filters but they actually do really well too.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Washington state
every oiled engine filter made will contaminate the MAF, can buildup deposits in the throttle body closed plate area and contaminate the ends of the injectors.
The oil in the filter on a hot day partially vaporizes and with high velocity air WOT is pulled off the filter media.
Oiled filters work and are a good fit for high output built carbureted engines such as a big block stroker Ford pushing 4.56 gears that will live at 3500 rpm most of it's life. 100k engine life is not a reason for building and owning one of these.
How many over the road or heavy construction CAT. engine oiled air filters do you see? ZERO. These manuf's are shooting for 500k mile 10's of thousands of hours of engine life and use only dry paper/synthetic filter media.
If one wants higher air flow on passenger vehicle, follow their lead, the largest filter box one can fit under the hood with a dry paper/synthetic filter element. Maybe a 4 ft tall stainless steel AutoCar truck filter drum mounted on the front bumper?
The oil in the filter on a hot day partially vaporizes and with high velocity air WOT is pulled off the filter media.
Oiled filters work and are a good fit for high output built carbureted engines such as a big block stroker Ford pushing 4.56 gears that will live at 3500 rpm most of it's life. 100k engine life is not a reason for building and owning one of these.
How many over the road or heavy construction CAT. engine oiled air filters do you see? ZERO. These manuf's are shooting for 500k mile 10's of thousands of hours of engine life and use only dry paper/synthetic filter media.
If one wants higher air flow on passenger vehicle, follow their lead, the largest filter box one can fit under the hood with a dry paper/synthetic filter element. Maybe a 4 ft tall stainless steel AutoCar truck filter drum mounted on the front bumper?
Last edited by 96_4wdr; Aug 2, 2005 at 03:02 AM.
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Wichita
I speak from experience when I say I have used K&N cones and OEM style K&N filters and I have never had a problem with my air or fuel system. None whatsoever. I inspect the MAF, throttlebody etc regularly. I even sent my TurboCoupe's 100K mile injectors in to be cleaned professionally and the before and after performance/flow charts were nearly the same.
To address an earlier comment. These are not the same filters as the oil bath models of 50 years ago.
Ed, I'll check out the site. I'm open to other opinions.
To address an earlier comment. These are not the same filters as the oil bath models of 50 years ago.
Ed, I'll check out the site. I'm open to other opinions.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,417
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From: Durham, NC
Originally Posted by VanGo
I speak from experience when I say I have used K&N cones and OEM style K&N filters and I have never had a problem with my air or fuel system. None whatsoever. I inspect the MAF, throttlebody etc regularly. I even sent my TurboCoupe's 100K mile injectors in to be cleaned professionally and the before and after performance/flow charts were nearly the same.
To address an earlier comment. These are not the same filters as the oil bath models of 50 years ago.
Ed, I'll check out the site. I'm open to other opinions.
To address an earlier comment. These are not the same filters as the oil bath models of 50 years ago.
Ed, I'll check out the site. I'm open to other opinions.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2000
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Ha, my 1971 Beetle has an oil bath air filter. What a PITA to change that.
Anyway, I have another question concerning air cleaners. Does anyone know whether a Windstar 3.0 air filter fits? I am already using the Windstar oil filter so maybe they share this part also.
Anyway, I have another question concerning air cleaners. Does anyone know whether a Windstar 3.0 air filter fits? I am already using the Windstar oil filter so maybe they share this part also.
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Wichita
Originally Posted by Bob Ayers
There is no way dirt and/or oil from the intake can get into the fuel passage inside the injectors, to affect flow rate......
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,720
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From: Washington state
The problem with oiled filter contamination of fuel injectors is buildup of contaminates at the outside spray edge of the injector orifice, affecting spray pattern, droplet size and fuel atomization before flow into the combustion chamber. Any oil products on the tip of the injector also attracts dirt/dust particles which then fuse into more problems with the heat of the operation area. Even injectors ran in non oiled filter app.s will have dirt/dust contamination build up at the outside of the orifice at time of injector service.
Originally Posted by Bob Ayers
There is no way dirt and/or oil from the intake can get into the fuel passage inside the injectors, to affect flow rate......