Got boost?

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Old 05-23-2005, 10:33 PM
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Got boost?

To all those junkies out there who just think that Naturally Aspiration is never enough.

What are your projects at the moment?
What do expect results to be like?
What are your future plans?

Mine is a supercharged 4V 5.4 mod motor.
Power should be sitting around (a conservative estimate) of 620RWhp, or around 730hp at the crank.
My future plans don't involve any further increases in power (the driveline has already been pushed beyond its limit), just small improvements over the current design to improve drivability, reliability etc.

I also play around with turbo charged Mazda Rotary engines, but they aren't really Fords.
 
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Old 05-24-2005, 02:15 AM
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I finally finished my project! 04 4x4 Expedition with a Lightning Supercharger Assembly running 10lbs of boost. Install was done last fall and was done in about two days, but I've never been able to get the tune right. After numerous trips to the same dyno I finally started thinking these guys were doing something wrong.

Found SVC in Scottsdale and wow were they good. They were able to diagnose my problem. I had a non-variable voltage non-return fuel system with a mechanical regulator in the tank that was regulating fuel pressure even under boost. Previous tuner compensated for the f.p. by pulling timing and richening the mixture while triggering it to shift at 4200 rpm's. This caused it to throw a light with a rich and lean code because the load was also programmed incorrectly. Installed a return fuel system, bypassed the mechanical regulator and the f.p. is where it should be.

Got it back today and fuel trims are within 2% of being perfect (Ford tunes from the factory to within 6%) I'm thinking if you had your fuel injectors matched you could probably get down to within 1%, but 2% is good enough for me, timing has been added in and I can't believe the difference.

On a hot day, 114 degrees in Phoenix today the dyno came in at 336 ft lbs of torque and 301 hp. My tuner says his dyno consistently comes in 21% lower than a dyno jet, not sure what to think about that, but I guess it's possible. I figure if the ambient air temp were around 80 degrees I'd probably get another 10-15 ft lbs of torque and another 10-15 hp. All in all you wouldn't believe how happy I am now that this is tuned right.

Can't believe the way it feels, what a trip! Pulling a 6200 lb Boat to Lake Powell this weekend and will be anxious to see how it does. Going from 1200 ft in elevation to over 8,000 ft in Flagstaff is quite a pull!
 
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Old 05-24-2005, 07:31 AM
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I plan on doing a setup similiar to Frederic on his crewcab. My setup will vary slightly however in that the electronics end of it will not be nearly as complex. Holley pro-jection for me. I will be running a roller cam 521" (4.39"B x 4.3"S) engine with two T42 turbos in my 73 2wd. It's going to be stupid as far as buying rear tires goes, but I don't care. I can't afford to drive it every day as is (NA 460..10MPG), so why not have stupid amounts of power to go with my poor MPG? DD2K says roughly 672 HP/4800 RPM, 895 TQ/2900 RPM but since that program is really hard to fine-tune with forced induction, accuracy is very questionable. I'm thinking more along the lines of 600/700.

To limit boost, I will have two setups in place.
1. Throttle switch to activate wastegate actuators. With this system, I will be able to run down the highway (at less than say half-throttle) and the actuators will have the wastegates open. More than half throttle and WHAMMO!!!!

2. Pressure switch set to 9-10PSI to open the wastegates. May cause surging condition, but we'll see.

Cody
 
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Old 05-24-2005, 07:49 AM
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Projects I'm helping friends with:
1996 Single turbo Northstar Caddy - really just an experiment for him, expecting harder acceleration and more fun to drive. No specific numbers targeted. He's also trying to learn GM EFI at the same time... which is why at this moment, the wastegate is stuck open intentionally.

197x Twin Turbo BBC Impala - almost done, we have some tweaking to do to the GM EFI graft as it's fine to 5.5K, then leans out rather extremely. He's built his motor to take 6500 rpm so he wants that extra 1000 RPMs. He can throw the nose of the car in the air as it is now, so I'd not worry about it, but hey, it's not my car The car has not been dyno'd, but his goal is 1500 HP on pump gas with the turbo. We'll see.

Fiero, SBC, EFI and single turbo conversion. This is for his kit-car project, and his goal is to make his kit-lambo accelerate like the real thing, approximately 650HP to compensate for the extra weight over a real lambo. Right now the car has been cut in half, ready for an 11" extension, and the rear engine bay has been hacked up really nice for the 350 and the v8 Archie adaptor kit. While fun to help him with, it's going to be a loser because he's retaining the original 5sp getrag/fiero tranny. Guarrenteed to disintegrate at this power level. He's using a single T4 garrett, I don't have the A/R info handy.

My Projects:
1993 F350 Crewcab, 500cid twin-turbo stroker truck. The goal is 1000 ft/lbs on pump gas, never exceeding 4500 RPM. There are several threads on this project, and I'm really at the beginning stages. The engine is almost done, the exhaust manifolds are almost done, but I was distracted with body work and frame rust that I had to fix (and still am, now doing the nose of the truck). I'm also adding cruise and AC, air suspension, a fabricated 4-link for the rear, slightly wider tires in the front, and same size diameter tires in the rear, but 4" wider once all the tuning is done. Adding power windows, locks, seats in the front, etc. And a PC with a homemade inverter and power control circuit, with a 13" LCD touchscreen, into a homemade steel dash that also isn't complete. The computer is done, just not what I have to mount it too. my problem is I start too many aspects of the project at the same time, and they all move very slowly, even though I work up a good sweat. Will I hit 1000 ft/lbs of torque? According to Engine Dyno, yes. Do I think so? No. But, it will be much higher than my 340K mile windsor, so it will be more fun to drive than it is now. At low RPMs too.

Future Projects:
1993 Supercharged Continental (former project that was completed) conversion to RWD, using rear mounted C5 vette 6-speed transaxle, grafted to MN12 IRS cradle and suspension arms, on a welded subframe that will extend through the bottom of the unibody to the front of the car, to which C5 corvette front suspension will be grafted on, using the 351W from my crewcab after it's rebuild, with a Mustang 5-sp in the tunnel. The air suspension goes away, and I'm planning on utilizing a variable vane turbo for this project, but I haven't selected it yet nor figured out how to control it. I will be using GM EFI on this because I know it much better than the Ford EEC and it will be complicated enough that I want to eliminate stuff I'm less familar with. I will not start this until the truck is done. The truck will tow this car to and from road races (in theory).

Mid-Engined GTP II - I wrecked the first homemade mid-engined car on the test drive (well, the first test drive I hammered it) so essentially I'll be building what I did the first time, using the same twin turbo 4.1L BUick V6, the Porsche G50-52 6-sp transaxle, and C4 corvette bits. I just have to acquire a driver side front upper a-arm and the suspension is complete again as that is what was damaged in the accident. Then weld the tubular chassis again, then I can get stuck at same spot I did last time - how to make a buck for the fiberglass body.

That's probably about as far ahead as I can anticipate projects, none of these are one-weekend deals.
 
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Old 05-24-2005, 04:14 PM
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Well I have a 2003 F-150, supercab stepside 4X4 auto 4.6 with 285-75R16. Stock 3.55 front and rear gears.

42# injectors, 255lph fuel pump, 90mm MAF

Master Power T-61 turbo, .84 A/R exhaust and .70 A/R compressor, mounted to a custom passenger side manifold manufactured by yours truly, with stock drivers side manifold and corssover connected to drivers side manifold.

Air to air intercooler thats as big as I could fit between the frame rails up front. Turbo XS racing bypass valve and boost controller. Mandrel bent 2.5 inch intercooler pipe with real silicone couplers (I used to have genuine home depot sewer pipe couplers).

Also got that really sweet C plate shift kit from Factory Tech.

I am trading in my SCT Xcalibrator for the Xcalibrator 2 with all the cool datalogging stuff that should be in soon. I'm buying the LC1 wideband to go along with it next month. Then I can get the data I need to finish out the tuning on my SCT tune so I can make maximum power and all that good stuff. Then I expect around 400 ponies at the wheels and maybe 500 tq.

Some future mods that I intend to do at some point are:

Water/meth injection
CO2 spray on the intercooler
Factory Tech Monster Box
Some drag slicks for the track
Maybe some 4.10 gears


Marlon
 
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Old 05-25-2005, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Fredman
Water/meth injection
having tried this, methenol is rather harsh on ordinary fuel injectors, just as a warning. I ended up monkeying more with distilled water/isopropol with decent results, using two 24lb fuel injectors and a frame-mounted inline F-Series fuel pump. The inline F-series fuel pump of the older trucks, has stainless innards, thus compatible with water, alcohol and methanol. Just a tip, save yourself some trouble there.

Originally Posted by Fredman
CO2 spray on the intercooler
We made a similar attempt, except instead of spraying the intercooler - we just eliminated it entirely. Instead, we fabricated our own intake plenum, and ran a "coil" of tubing inside the plenum, with a fitting on both sides of the plenum, with the coil in between. Then fed the CO2 directly to the coil, which then directly cooled the air charge.
 
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Old 05-26-2005, 08:53 AM
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Cool, thanks for the tips. I said meth but I really meant to say alcohol. The distilled stuff thats so cheap they sell in the hardware store is what I plan on using, mixed 50% with water. I have a Mocal differential fluid pump that I think will work fine for the pump, and I plan to buy some nozzles from a company that sells "real" water injection kits to use in my "homemade" one. I'll toy with that one day, but I kinda seem to be in a lull right now on working on my stuff. Maybe after my tuning is finished I will be motivated to do some other stuff.

I have seen several of the nitrous sprays for intercoolers. But I figure thats kinda stupid since nitrous is so expensive, and CO2 is so dern cheap. And they both have extremely low boiling temps. I probably won't use it all the time, only if the intercooler gets heat soaked at the track or something. Or maybe program it to come on only at high levels of boots, like 12 psi or something. We'll see though, its something to play with.


Marlon
 
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Old 05-27-2005, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Fredman
mixed 50% with water.
Distilled water too. Tap water has flouride among many other things, and depending where you live you might have "hard water" which will have tons of minerals in it as well. Over long periods of time, this "stuff" in the water may clog your nozzles partially or completely. So use distilled water, or run the water through a brita water filter pitcher

Originally Posted by Fredman
I plan to buy some nozzles from a company that sells "real" water injection kits to use in my "homemade" one. I'll toy with that one day, but I kinda seem to be in a lull right now on working on my stuff.
Fair enough. My advice here is to start off small, then increase as you work the kinks out. Since water is not compressible the same way gas and alcohol suspended in air is, if your system goes bananas you run the risk of hydraulicly locking the engine. Ask me how I know Just be gentle at first until you're sure your homemade system is doing what you expect it to.

Originally Posted by Fredman
I have seen several of the nitrous sprays for intercoolers. But I figure thats kinda stupid since nitrous is so expensive, and CO2 is so dern cheap. And they both have extremely low boiling temps. I probably won't use it all the time, only if the intercooler gets heat soaked at the track or something. Or maybe program it to come on only at high levels of boots, like 12 psi or something. We'll see though, its something to play with.
I didn't say it won't work, and your thinking here is definately sound. I wasn't knocking the idea at all actually, merely suggesting that cooling the intercooler with co2 is less efficient than cooling the airflow directly. And since that can be made to work (we tested this idea as I said above), the weight and aggrevation of an intercooler and associated plumbing could be eliminated. I had assumed you were going to drag race, so as you know removing weight is as important as adding horsepower.


Marlon[/QUOTE]
 
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Old 05-29-2005, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jarepackard
I finally finished my project! 04 4x4 Expedition with a Lightning Supercharger Assembly running 10lbs of boost. !
Sounds cool!

But the 10lbs of boost makes me chuckle

Here is a shot of my boost gauge on fuel alone

 

Last edited by Dockboy; 05-29-2005 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 05-29-2005, 11:32 PM
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Very cool.
I checked out your truck th otherday, seems an impressive ride.

I am quite amazed though, you are only using 48psi (fuel only), yet you manage over 500hp on a 7.3...

Do you use water/meth injection when you aren't using NOS?


I would be quite intrigued what a 7.3l would be capable of.
Some of the engines I have helped tune ran at over 100psi, the highest was 2 quad rotors (both running 135psi) destined for an off shore race boat.
The engines dynoed at around 2100hp each.
Just don't ask about fuel consumption
 
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Old 05-29-2005, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BigF350
Very cool.
I checked out your truck th otherday, seems an impressive ride.

I am quite amazed though, you are only using 48psi (fuel only), yet you manage over 500hp on a 7.3...

Do you use water/meth injection when you aren't using NOS?

Thanks BigF350

Considering a stock PSD makes ~18 lbs!! and most modded PSD's make around 27-30 lbs.

Yes I have water/meth inj. and NOS but the 500+ dyno is #2 only and only making 37 lbs. because the dyno doesn't load the truck enough!!

I hit 60+ lbs with the juice running
 

Last edited by Dockboy; 05-29-2005 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 05-29-2005, 11:55 PM
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60lbs, thats more like it!!!


I say that, and my car only runs 13lbs - it does make over 600hp at the rear wheels though...
But it gets no where near the amount of torque you get. Wonder why
 
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