Racing Fuel like in Marine racine fuel is a basic mix of Nitro/ethanol/Leaded Gas.. I have use it in the pass and its powerfull stuff.. but the power comes from the nitro.. not the ethanol.. The ethanol lowers the fuel charge temp and the gas is the binder for the whole mi This is for marine Racing, Auto racing mixer can be diffrent ) And there only about 5-10% ethanol 40-70% Nitro and the rest is Leaded marine gas.. Run this mix in your truck and I promise that you will notice a big diffrence for the 30 sec that your engine stay togather..

 

Ol hotrod has run 'em all, but in diff engine combinations for diff race cars.
My basic uninformed opinion is:

Alcohol is as posted above has less btu per lb than gasoline. It is used in race motors for a couple of reasons; 1. Less sensitive to pre-ignition so one can use more spark advance and higher compression to obtain more power. 2. Cooling factor (like 'latent heat' or something like that,?,) that permits the higher compression pressures with less heat generated than gasoline. NHRA alcohol funnycars run over 13/1 compression w/ big fat magnetos to fire the charge in the high compression pressure. To rich a mixture is not making optimum power, to lean a mix lets you replace pistons w/ holes burned right thru the .200 thick domes. And if it sneezes, backfires, then you also get to replace a whole lot of other expensive gadgets...

Gasoline has more btu per pound than alcohol. Typical air/fuel ratios are about 14/1 for reg driving. Power ratios are in the 11.5-12/1 for max power. Ran a blown gas dragster and the motor was boiling at the end of a 1/4 mile pass. On alcohol, same car and similar engine, at the end of the 1/4, hot yes, boil, no...

Nitro; really an oxidant/oxidizer and used for cleaning, degreasing, and absolutely killing poorly tuned and or assembled race motors. Harmless by its self. Pour some in a coffee can and try to light it. No way Jose, won't light. Put it in a properly prepared race motor and under the heat, and compression pressure, you have controlled liquid horsepower... Diminishing returns tho, like if a 25% nitro mix produces 25% more power, a 50% mix will not produce 50% more power. Current NHRA fuel regulations are at 92% or so nitro and usually the othe part of the mix is alcohol. 100% straight out of the barrel was in vogue until NHRA added the alcohol to the fuel specs. The tremendus HP is gained by a very large fuel volume ingested into the motor thru a very precise fuel metering system operated by several air operated timers that add fuel at the hit, (throttle depressing,) then take some away, add more, etc, at diff parts of the run as the car progresses down the track. Fuel pumps that flow well over 60/70 g.p.m. are used to feed this quest for e.t's and mph. Oh yes, the clutch management system is also just as precise as the fuel system.

Haven't heard of any mixing alcohol, nitro, and gasoline. Least not in NHRA/IHRA racing. Hydrazine, yes, years back and if you thought nitro killed 'em, a 2 to 3% hydrazine was really a BLAST!!! Also nitrous was used in fuel racing for a short time. First in vapor, then some brave souls just injected the liquid w/ the nitro at the fuel pump. I saw the Snake literally grenade 3 high dollar motors in 3 qualifying passes. His comment was: "I've had all this fun I can stand for one day..." Nuff said, Si???

Bottom line: It is not the nut that blows up a motor, it is the "NUT" turning the wrenchs that blows up the motor...

 

Dewayne, I probably was confusing when I said that ethanol generates less energy per gallon than gasoline when used in an engine. To be more precise, it generates less energy in terms of hydrocarbon oxidation than gasoline. That statement is true, but it DOES NOT translate directly into fuel economy because there are other energy producing reactions going on, as well as changes in the reaction timing, when alcohol is added to gasoline. Alcohols burn cooler than gasoline in general, and the additional oxygen they provide produces reactions besides the basic oxidation of the hydrocarbons in gasoline. I don't want to oversimplify the chemistry because it's complex, but one way to think of it is that small percentages of alcohol added to gasoline make the mixture burn more efficiently overall than straight gasoline. Thus, even though there is less gross energy available in a gallon of ethanol, you might end up getting the same amount of usable energy at the wheels (MPG) from a gallon of gasahol and a gallon of gasoline. If I haven't thoroughly confused you by now it's not because I'm not trying.

 

Ok, now that George has tried, and sucessfully screwed all of us up, i will fall back on what i had said.....
and no Dewayne....you didnt... ...maybe someday you'll learn...

The reason my pickup is making such poor mileage is probably because of the "soft" valves....i guess you learn a new thing everyday...
However, i still do not see the reason that that '91 5.0 should do sooo horribly, other than the "less energy per..." or whatever George said....Thinking back, i must also take into consideration that this was a winter trip, and the car never fully did warm up like it was supposed to, so it was probably telling the computer to pour a little more gas to it....Im hoping on takin a little 4.5 hr trip to SD this weekend, so we'll see again how it does, when its closer to 50 degrees outside and the motor can warm up where it should......

D....A....R....R...E....L...L.......spell it with me Dewayne

 

"Thus, even though there is less gross energy available in a gallon of ethanol, you might end up getting the same amount of usable energy at the wheels (MPG) from a gallon of gasahol and a gallon of gasoline. If I haven't thoroughly confused you by now it's not because I'm not trying."

You haven't lost me yet George, though I have every confidence you will eventually. You know I'm the "show me guy", though I live a bit north of Missouri. I'm sure the chemistry is quite complex.

Practically speaking, in the early computer days when cars didn;t have four O2 sensors, I had experience with ECMs that could not cope well with the switch to ethanol in performance applications. That could be what Daryll is witnessing in his parents cars. The new stuff is far more complex, and able to make the necessary changes to optimize fuel and ignition curves. Not that I am as up on it as I soon intend to be, but just from my reading.

 

Darrell and 'fenders, would you two stop it....she just hollered from the other room---- "WHAT THE HELL'S SO FUNNY IN THERE"

______________
xfordman

 

'and no Dewayne....you didnt... ...maybe someday you'll learn...'

Didn't what???

Anyway Dairrull,

You may realize this already. But prolly not so listen up. We're talking about burned valves. The valves basically pound the seats into the heads. It usually takes quite a while to happen. At least on 60 something heads. It's easy to diagnose with a compression test. But in any case, I'd avoid ethanol blend. I definitely wouldn't risk a flatty. The whole program is a financial failure currently.

And BTW, we tell all the corn farmers around here they have faces shaped like a rural route mailbox. It's caused by sticking their heads in there every day looking for a government subsidy check.

Sad it's come to that.

 

alright duwaine...if thats the way u wanna play it....

yes, i did get the part about the valves.....and i am also aware of the mailbox-shaped heads, although you did forget about the sharp curve on the bill of their hats that also contours to the box, and therefore, their heads...

im nowhere near as far behind as you think i am, old man...

Darrell S. Slavick, Esq.

P.S.-----im leavin tomorrow afternoon on that little trip, so we'll see how that 5.0 performs when its a little warmer outside .....i think it just puts out too much raw horsepower for that much of a blend of corn-juice in with the gas....therefore, it drinks more of it to compensate...

 

Its getting very hard to find the non-ethanol blend around here. Should I put lead additive into the tank to off set the ethanol?

What about Marvel Mystery oil? I've heard some guys put that into the tank as well.
Thanks
Todd

 

I burn E10 in everything I have from trucks, cars, lawn mower and 4 wheeler and I also burn 20% Biodiesel blend with no trouble. I will burn E85 if I can find it at the pump or if I can find it in bulk. As you can tell this puts money back in my pocket because the sale of corn and soybeans also pays for this Truck hobbie I have. Remember guy renewable fuel helps the good ol USA
www.e85fuel.com

 

i would definitely burn a lead additive whether you burn ethanol, depending on which engine you have.....if its an old flathead or i-6, it would be a good idea to run lead....even the older v-8s wouldnt mind a shot of lead here and there...
lets just say it wouldnt hurt....better safe than sorry
Darrell

 

Here's what I think I know about using alcohol for fuel.

Alcohol in gasoline is ok, but you've got to know a few things about it.

One big problem is if you've got a vehicle that hasn't seen much gasohol in the past, there's likely to be a build-up of gasoline 'varnish' on the inside of the tank. Suddenly switching to gasohol will dissolve some of the built-up varnish and cause it to migrate downstream to places where you don't want gas varnish. Places like the fuel filter, the insides of the fuel line, and most problematic, the carburetor and injectors.

But if you've got a relatively clean system, gasohol can work. Alcohol, unlike gasoline, contains Oxygen. That means it's already partially Oxidized (burned). So it's going to produce less heat (and less energy), per molocule. That means it will burn cooler. That means it has a higher natural 'octane rating'. You can jack the compression ratio of pure alcohol burning vehicles as high as 14:1. Adding alcohol to gasoline makes the mixture burn cooler and raises its 'octane rating' and improves its resistance to knock and ping. But if your vehicle didn't already have a high compression ratio, then you can't take full advantage of the high octane rating of gasohol.

There's also an air/fuel implication to using gasohol; the stoichometric ratio of air to fuel changes when you start using alcohol, but I've forgotten which direction. I think you need less oxygen, more fuel, but I'm fuzzy about that. In electronically controlled fuel injection engines, this shouldn't be a problem, but in carbureted engines, it becomes an issue. If my recollection is correct, it means that your carbureted engine gets leaned out slightly when you add 10% alcohol. Because it's burning cooler, it shouldn't be a problem, but it will be a loss of power.

Adding alcohol to gasoline is a pretty good way to lower NOx and CO emissions. If you're retuning for gasohol, I think you'd want a slightly richer mixture, and more spark advance. If you're rebuilding and you anticipate using gasohol, you can raise the static compression ratio. Using a shorter cam to raise the dynamic compression ratio would help, too. Or advancing the cam slightly should help.

Be sure to double-check my 'facts' on this subject, but it should give you some things to think about.

 

ok.....heres the results.....Ethanol --20
Non-Ethanol--22
head wind both ways, motor still ran cool, oh well i guess, now we know....still a 10% drop with ethanol this time...