Ethanol Gasoline
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,362
Likes: 22
From: Florence, SC
Ethanol Gasoline
Up until a month ago, there were two gas stations within about 10 miles from my house that still sold 100% gasoline. Both of these stores now sell the Ethanol blend, and it was told to me because the Federal government stopped allowing the use of 100% gasoline in order to conserve. So now it seems I have no other choice but to run the Ethanol blend gas in my carbureted 302 engine.
Is my engine going to run the same? Will I have to re-tune my carburetor? Does the ethanol gasoline have any adverse effects on carburetors?
What are the pros and cons to 100% gasoline versus the 10% ethanol blend? Someone told me that the ethanol helps to clean out your gas tank and lines, but that the gas itself goes bad quicker. Is this true?
Is my engine going to run the same? Will I have to re-tune my carburetor? Does the ethanol gasoline have any adverse effects on carburetors?
What are the pros and cons to 100% gasoline versus the 10% ethanol blend? Someone told me that the ethanol helps to clean out your gas tank and lines, but that the gas itself goes bad quicker. Is this true?
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
Likes: 92
From: Denver Metro Area, CO
What people fail to acknowledge is that the Colorado front range as well as a few other
states/locales around the country were using that gas since the early-mid 1980s... originally
just in the winter months but, by the time 1990 came around, it was pretty much all we had
available to use. The world didn't end, the sky didn't fall, people's engines didn't
mysteriously self-destruct, yet there's lots of hype & misinformation being spread by people
trying to point fingers and assess blame.
Do some actual homework; except in a few cases, all you're going to get here are
unsubstantiated opinions.
states/locales around the country were using that gas since the early-mid 1980s... originally
just in the winter months but, by the time 1990 came around, it was pretty much all we had
available to use. The world didn't end, the sky didn't fall, people's engines didn't
mysteriously self-destruct, yet there's lots of hype & misinformation being spread by people
trying to point fingers and assess blame.
Do some actual homework; except in a few cases, all you're going to get here are
unsubstantiated opinions.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,271
Likes: 2
From: Mexia, TX
If I recall, an '84 F150 owner's manual I have says that our trucks can run up to an 85% gas/15% ethanol mix. It did warn that using fuel with a higher percentage of ethanol than 15% could cause problems (driveability issues, and I think fuel line problems).
If you want, I can see if I can find that manual and quote it here for you word-for-word to eliminate any doubt.
Here in Texas, we've got something like a 90/10 mix, but I'm not certain. I just know there's ethanol in it at the pumps near me.
If you want, I can see if I can find that manual and quote it here for you word-for-word to eliminate any doubt.
Here in Texas, we've got something like a 90/10 mix, but I'm not certain. I just know there's ethanol in it at the pumps near me.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 8
From: North Carolina
The owners manual for my truck (1986) says it is compatible with 10% ethanol in the gasoline. That is the common US blending ratio, called E10 at the pump. If you read the wikipedia article on Ethanol fuel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel it gives strightforward, fairly well-referenced information on ethanol in gasoline.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
A lot of it depends on gaskets and seals in the carb. A good carb kit should have the right seals, but there have been some bad ones floating around.
Basically, the ethanol will cause the seals to swell and cause certain passages/mechanisms to bind up and you get a car that runs like crap.
I know this is happening in some of the q-jet kits coming out of Napa auto parts. (Obviously not a concern for most Ford owners...)
Basically, the ethanol will cause the seals to swell and cause certain passages/mechanisms to bind up and you get a car that runs like crap.
I know this is happening in some of the q-jet kits coming out of Napa auto parts. (Obviously not a concern for most Ford owners...)
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 8,786
Likes: 28
From: Northern California
The biggest problem with any ethanol blend with our older vehicles, is if the vehicle has never used it before, it can break loose a lot of varnish and deposits that have developed over the years. This is not a cause for concern with our trucks that have always ran the stuff or with clean fuel systems. Most of our trucks is rated E-10 so the rubber of the fuel system was designed to take it.
Another problem is some places are going to E-15. Most of our trucks are only rated for E-10 so there might be some serious issues for this.
Ethanol tends to attract water more...
Another cause for concern, but not with the ethanol, is that the additives they used for carburetors, to keep them clean and from freezing have been removed.
Here are some pros and cons from other websites...
Problems and Disadvantages of Ethanol Alcohol Blend Gasolines - E10.
Mechanics see ethanol damaging small engines - Business - Consumer news - msnbc.com
E15 and Engines - Can Ethanol Damage my Engine - Popular Mechanics
Another problem is some places are going to E-15. Most of our trucks are only rated for E-10 so there might be some serious issues for this.
Ethanol tends to attract water more...
Another cause for concern, but not with the ethanol, is that the additives they used for carburetors, to keep them clean and from freezing have been removed.
Here are some pros and cons from other websites...
Problems and Disadvantages of Ethanol Alcohol Blend Gasolines - E10.
Mechanics see ethanol damaging small engines - Business - Consumer news - msnbc.com
E15 and Engines - Can Ethanol Damage my Engine - Popular Mechanics
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
Older EFI systems will take a hit on MPG with E10, but carbs don't know the difference.
My 90 Nissan takes a 15% hit on MPG with the 10% ethanol. I've done the math too many times, so I know it's accurate.
A carb puts X volume of fuel into the airflow, doesn't matter whether it's 100% gas, or if it has a blend of gas/ethanol.
I wish the government would quit forcing us to use corn based ethanol. It's the least cost effective to produce, and has an effect on the price of food. It costs more to produce than gas, and is only "cheaper" due to the subsidy paid by the government. Sugar based ethanol would be far less to produce, and wouldn't need to be subsidized to be lower cost than gasoline.
End of rant......
My 90 Nissan takes a 15% hit on MPG with the 10% ethanol. I've done the math too many times, so I know it's accurate.
A carb puts X volume of fuel into the airflow, doesn't matter whether it's 100% gas, or if it has a blend of gas/ethanol.
I wish the government would quit forcing us to use corn based ethanol. It's the least cost effective to produce, and has an effect on the price of food. It costs more to produce than gas, and is only "cheaper" due to the subsidy paid by the government. Sugar based ethanol would be far less to produce, and wouldn't need to be subsidized to be lower cost than gasoline.
End of rant......
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 8,786
Likes: 28
From: Northern California
Older EFI systems will take a hit on MPG with E10, but carbs don't know the difference.
My 90 Nissan takes a 15% hit on MPG with the 10% ethanol. I've done the math too many times, so I know it's accurate.
A carb puts X volume of fuel into the airflow, doesn't matter whether it's 100% gas, or if it has a blend of gas/ethanol.
I wish the government would quit forcing us to use corn based ethanol. It's the least cost effective to produce, and has an effect on the price of food. It costs more to produce than gas, and is only "cheaper" due to the subsidy paid by the government. Sugar based ethanol would be far less to produce, and wouldn't need to be subsidized to be lower cost than gasoline.
End of rant......
My 90 Nissan takes a 15% hit on MPG with the 10% ethanol. I've done the math too many times, so I know it's accurate.
A carb puts X volume of fuel into the airflow, doesn't matter whether it's 100% gas, or if it has a blend of gas/ethanol.
I wish the government would quit forcing us to use corn based ethanol. It's the least cost effective to produce, and has an effect on the price of food. It costs more to produce than gas, and is only "cheaper" due to the subsidy paid by the government. Sugar based ethanol would be far less to produce, and wouldn't need to be subsidized to be lower cost than gasoline.
End of rant......
Ethanol is an oxygenating agent, and the O2 sensors read the air fuel mixture as too lean, so it will richen up the fuel mixture.
You can lean a Feedback carb out more to compensate, but not so much with EFI.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
On the feedback carb systems it can lower fuel mileage as well, because Feedback carbs, and EFI use O2 sensors.
Ethanol is an oxygenating agent, and the O2 sensors read the air fuel mixture as too lean, so it will richen up the fuel mixture.
You can lean a Feedback carb out more to compensate, but not so much with EFI.
Ethanol is an oxygenating agent, and the O2 sensors read the air fuel mixture as too lean, so it will richen up the fuel mixture.
You can lean a Feedback carb out more to compensate, but not so much with EFI.
But yeah, the O2 sensor reads a false lean, causing it to add more fuel. In my case, it adds 15% more fuel, on average......
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
How do the modern flex-fuel EFI systems handle it? use a wideband sensor?
One solution would be to set your car up with a speed-density tune, so that it never goes closed loop. You'd lose the flexibility of EFI, though.
One solution would be to set your car up with a speed-density tune, so that it never goes closed loop. You'd lose the flexibility of EFI, though.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,005
Likes: 7
From: Ottawa, Ontario
The Ethanol is actually a good thing depending how you use your vehicle. Ethanol really cleans out the crap and water from the tanks and cleans everything in the fuel systems.
Disadvantage, it starts going bad in the matter of a few weeks of sitting.
For the guys that have to pass Air tests or Emissions tests what ever you call it, to give your self an extra chance of passing. Fuel up Ethanol in the vehicle before going for your Emission test. It really does help alot!
Ethanol burns alot cleaner, but burns alot faster, so your mpg will drop using Ethanol gas.
I worked in a garage when the Ethanol blend came out here, and we got alot of people coming to us, complaining that there car wasn't running right etc.
All cases were caused by dirty/clogged gas filter!
Ethanol as I said earlier, really cleans out the tank and fuel system, so all the junk you had sitting in your tank from regular gasoline and water in the buttom all came through with the Ethanol gas and clogged up the filter.
So when you've ran a good couple of tanks with some harder miles, change the gas filter!
Disadvantage, it starts going bad in the matter of a few weeks of sitting.
For the guys that have to pass Air tests or Emissions tests what ever you call it, to give your self an extra chance of passing. Fuel up Ethanol in the vehicle before going for your Emission test. It really does help alot!
Ethanol burns alot cleaner, but burns alot faster, so your mpg will drop using Ethanol gas.
I worked in a garage when the Ethanol blend came out here, and we got alot of people coming to us, complaining that there car wasn't running right etc.
All cases were caused by dirty/clogged gas filter!
Ethanol as I said earlier, really cleans out the tank and fuel system, so all the junk you had sitting in your tank from regular gasoline and water in the buttom all came through with the Ethanol gas and clogged up the filter.
So when you've ran a good couple of tanks with some harder miles, change the gas filter!
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
Water does not float on top of gasoline. In fact, gas floats on water, so any water in the tank, sits on the bottom.
A non computerized carb will see no difference in MPG on a 10% ethanol blend. Later model EFI systems shouldn't see any real drop either. It's the older (OBD I) systems that take a hit, as the O2 sensor reads a false lean condition, due to the extra oxygenation of the ethanol fuel.
I don't like running ethanol, but since I have *almost* no choice, I do. I *could* drive 20 miles to a station that advertises "Ethanol free" 100% gas, and pay the $.10-$.25 premium, but that's just stupid.
A non computerized carb will see no difference in MPG on a 10% ethanol blend. Later model EFI systems shouldn't see any real drop either. It's the older (OBD I) systems that take a hit, as the O2 sensor reads a false lean condition, due to the extra oxygenation of the ethanol fuel.
I don't like running ethanol, but since I have *almost* no choice, I do. I *could* drive 20 miles to a station that advertises "Ethanol free" 100% gas, and pay the $.10-$.25 premium, but that's just stupid.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Water does not float on top of gasoline. In fact, gas floats on water, so any water in the tank, sits on the bottom.
A non computerized carb will see no difference in MPG on a 10% ethanol blend. Later model EFI systems shouldn't see any real drop either. It's the older (OBD I) systems that take a hit, as the O2 sensor reads a false lean condition, due to the extra oxygenation of the ethanol fuel.
I don't like running ethanol, but since I have *almost* no choice, I do. I *could* drive 20 miles to a station that advertises "Ethanol free" 100% gas, and pay the $.10-$.25 premium, but that's just stupid.
A non computerized carb will see no difference in MPG on a 10% ethanol blend. Later model EFI systems shouldn't see any real drop either. It's the older (OBD I) systems that take a hit, as the O2 sensor reads a false lean condition, due to the extra oxygenation of the ethanol fuel.
I don't like running ethanol, but since I have *almost* no choice, I do. I *could* drive 20 miles to a station that advertises "Ethanol free" 100% gas, and pay the $.10-$.25 premium, but that's just stupid.