Hey All,

Didn't have any luck running a search and I was just curious if anyone is running a TAG System from diesel power products, was reading up on it and they claim that it may improve your milage a bit (not enough to talk about) but it has a real "kick in the pants" difference in performance, if this is the case, I'm in.

I have a 01 250SD 4X4 7.3L w/44,000 miles that is completely stock and wondering if this thing is worth the money or not, would appreciate any input you can offer.

Thanks

 

What is a TAG system???

 

Go to dieselpowerproducts web site, put com/tag at the end. Hope this makes sense, the system won't let me post links yet.

It is a honeycomb piece that fits in the turbo to supposedly straighten out the airflow before it goes into the tubo.

 

Some people swear by them, and then I have heard some people with TAG systems dyno their trucks and actually lose power.

In my opinion, it is nothing more than a restriction, just like the Tornado. Same concept, different look. It's supposed to channel or straighten out the air before it hits the turbo. In any case, the turbo mearly chops up the air, so no matter how it comes into the turbo, it gets sucked in all the same. Just remember that anything you put in front of incoming air, it is a restriction.

I like their claims on that page. In one place it mentions up to a 2 mpg gain. In another "test" they claim a 45% reduction in emissions. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm....

 

I fully agree, but for some people that restriction is a good thing. Pretty much anyone that's not blowing smoke will see some improvement in the form of better throttle responce from the TAG, but for the hot rod oil burners it can only slow you down.

 

i have heard the exact same thing

i agree as well, the more air that can flow the better. i dont buy that it "straightens the air flow and allows the compressor blades to catch more air" more resistance in the air flow, means less air.

 

I have the TAG in my truck and I can say it works! The TAG straightens the air as it comes into the turbo wheel, allowing the wheel to catch more air. This is a proven engineering fact and it works. If you look at the dyno sheet provided on thier website you will see that below 2500 rpms there is an increase in hp and tq, but when you get over 3000 the hp and tq drop slightly because as you say it is a restriction. However, I rarely drive over 3000 rpms. So yes if you dyno it you will see slighly lower numbers.

As for my driving experince with the TAG, I noticed an improvement in throttle response in the lower to mid rpm range. I did not notice any difference at WOT. Driving at highway speeds it seemed to be easier to pass other vehicles. As for mileage I did not see any change. Over all I like the TAG and I am keeping it in more truck. I believe they also have a TAG II which is two TAGS, one on the turbo and one further in the air intake. I would also suggest getting an aftermarket air intake too, which will also help with power and mileage. I saw about an 1 mpg gain when I installed my SP Diesel Intake.

If you haven't tried it don't bash it.

 

Well, I have looked around trying to find any 3rd party info supporting TAG claims. So far I have seen none. I've seen a few tests online here and there and an article on Fourwheeler online where they have run dyno tests with and without TAG. The Fourwheeler dyno'ed a Dodge and found zero gains, and another dyno test from an individual with a dodge gained 6 HP and LOST 9 ft/lbs. torque. The only real improvements reported by everyone with the TAG is a reduced turbo noise. So for those of you with an open air intake and are sick of the turbo whine, then the TAG is for you.

Those who sell the TAG have claims and dyno tests on their websites supporting better MPG, increased HP and torque, and reduced emissions. I would like to see a 3rd party test (Consumer Reports or similar) that could put this to rest. By now, most have seen reviews of the Tornado. That company claims that "swirling vortex" of air is better for combustion, and all 3rd party tests results came back with zero gains. Now the TAG system claims that straightening the air is better. In my opinion, it is another piece of metal in your intake pipe.

As far as seat of the pants feel.... This came from an article that rated and tested the Tornado:

"The feel of increased power is what the consumer expects to feel. So it is a matter of perception. Something was done to the engine and the driver perceives it as an improvement he can feel. Much like the perceived feeling after an oil and filter change was done. It feels better because we expect it to be better."

I've got one word for ya: PLACEBO!

 

Thanks for the input guys, I think for now I'll just go with a better intake system and a bigger exhaust down the road.

Personally I like the whine of the turbo, my ears are getting bad enough that I can't hardly hear it anymore anyways so I need to keep as much there as what I can and I think I would have a hard time explaining to my wife why I need to spend the money, she still thinks it was too much money for the truck! On the other hand I could just buy one to try as it is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission

 

Hey we are all free to voice our opinions here and I don't want to start a debate. I tried and I like it. I believe they also offer a 30 day money back guarantee, so if you don't like send it back. I was a little wary myself when I bought, but it worked. I am not trying to sell anything here, I could care less. I am just telling you what I experienced.

Whether or not you think the TAG works in your truck it is true that the compressor wheel will run more efficiently with laminar air flow compared to turbulent air flow. I learned this in one of my engineering classes.

 

I'm no engineer, and I believe what you say is true. But whatever gains you get by achieving laminar air flow is now offset by greater air restriction caused by the TAG device itself. Would you think so?

BTW, I'm not trying to argue, this is turning into a very respectful discussion and hopefully others will keep it on topic. I'd love to see some real results and find a product that actually works and has real world numbers to prove it (I never rely on manufacturer's claims only). So keep the replies coming. Time for me to get back to work, I'll post again later tonight when I finish teaching. Hopefully we'll get some more info on this.

 

Seems to me that the filter media itself would remove most turbulance.

 

I agree with he majority, What very little it helps if at all is not worth the 200+$ on the price tag.

 

[QUOTE=Pocket]But whatever gains you get by achieving laminar air flow is now offset by greater air restriction caused by the TAG device itself. Would you think so?
QUOTE]

I don't know the exact surface area of the TAG, but it is small compared to the turbo inlet size. However, I don't disagree that is somewhat restrictive, there is no arguing that. At lower RPMs I believe the effects that the TAG has on the air flow over comes the restricting of air. But when your RPMs get high enough the opposite occurs, were the restricting of the TAG over comes the straightening effects. This would show why maximum output of the engine shown on dynos is reduced. The dynos you reffered to, did that show you the entire RPM range or just eh Max output? But like I said I rarely drive my truck at 3000 RPMs, so it didn't matter to me. If you are looking for the greatest output of the engine at the highest RPM, then don't get the TAG. But if you want better driveability, then it works. I don't have my own dyno numbers to back any of this up, but if I do something to my truck and like the way the truck runs, I am happy! Even if the SOTP thing is bunch a crap, it makes me feel good. Just to mention, I did the air intake heater mod, which is supposed to eliminate air restriction, and I did not notice much of a difference from the SOTP feeling. I also did this before the TAG, so I think the SOTP feeling is a good judge for me at least. By the way I only paid $100 for TAG, I think the TAG II is $200. I am glad to see there are no hard feelings here, i like a good discussion myself every once and while.