I have a question that has been eating at me lately, and I could probably post this in numerous different forums and get numerous responses, I suppose.

I spend a lot of time in Southern California freeway traffic, and see a lot of different vehicles while on the road. One thing I have noticed is that there are A LOT of F250\350 V10's around here (a lot of PSD's too, just not quite as many by my observations). I also notice that there are quite a few motor homes that have the V10 badge on them also.

This surprises me for a couple of reasons:

1. We are all in agreement that the fuel consumption on the V10 isn't exactly stellar. While a motorhome can probably accomodate a larger fuel tank I can't help but wonder...

2. Why a diesel engine isn't used in these very heavy vehicles. I see them in the 32' (avg) length, and usually towing a smaller vehicle, and the PSD is supposed to get much better fuel economy while pulling this kind of load.

3. If the PSD supposedly pulls so much better, why aren't they used more in the this class (van type?) of motorhome? I can only surmise, that due to the engine location in the passenger compartment, noise and diesel fume smell would be the main reasons.

4. If the V10 gets such horrible fuel economy, why are so many people sitting in them in traffic? (Okay, make no reference to their mental capacity, this is SoCal after all!)

I am impressed with the V10's apparent abilities to tow, accelerate, and their shear numbers on the road. I am in the market for a new (05) F250, and I am 99% certain it will be a V10, for a miriad of reasons that all of the forums on this website can provide info to.

Are the large number of V10's in the SoCal area indicitive of anything in particular?

Just a lighthearted question with no intention of starting the V10 vs. PSD war, as that one has been around the block (and gas pump) too many times.

Thanks for any thoughts you may all have on this.

Peace.

JS

 

The V10 does not get horrible gas mileage in the right application as you will hear fron many people. I have an 04 F350 4X4 CC PSD with a Camper and I get around 12 MPG. I have talked to some V10 people with rigs my size and they are getting around 10. With diesel fuel higher than gas in a lot of places there is not much difference in running either one. I have not been in S. Cal. for a few years so I can't comment on that but I go through Jasper Park in Alberta, Canada and you see many ,many, good size Class C motorhomes up there. These are all rental units, all V10s and let me tell you they go up those mountain passes very well. They don't slow me down a bit and If I were to pass them I would be risking a speeding ticket. Talking to the people that rent these units and reading the posts here and other places have convinced me try a V10 and I have one on order. My PSD has reliability issues and I don't want to gamble on another one.If you want a Ford Superduty and you want to haul heavy or tow big, you only have 2 choices, PSD or V10. If you could order an 05 with a 7.3 PSD that's what I would do. I had a 95 and 2000 PSD 7.3 and liked them both. They would get around 16 MPG with my camper on and they had all the power I needed. Sure this thing I have now goes like a raped ape after you get by the turbo lag, but I hate being hauled to the dealer and going 7 days without a truck. Good luck and thanks for listening, Wrench.

 

First off, 6.8L V10s actually get good mileage when you compare it to other gas engine trucks in this class. It gets alot better mileage than the GM 8.1L and the 2005 V10s make more torque and HP. I average 11 to 12 mpg with mine and a little over 14 for highway driving. Not many gas powered trucks that weigh 7000lbs get mileage near that. So it's bad mileage if you compare it to a Toyota Camry, notso bad if you compare it to a Ram 3500 5.7L!

Second, the V10 is roughly $4000 cheaper than the PSD option. When you combine this with the higher price for a gallon of diesel gas in some areas it's even a bigger hit in the wallet to own a diesel. Here in northern WV diesel is 45 cents per gallon higher at the station where I fill up. It's the cheapest on in town too..87 octane is $1.75 and diesel gas is $2.19.

 

I think #2 & #3 can be answered with one word: weight

Most RVs of that class run at (or slightly over) GVWR. The few hundred lbs of weight that a diesel has over a V10 means that much less in creature comforts &/or payload. Having said that, the new smaller & lighter diesels are starting to make their way into the RV chassis designs.

I can't speak for the Californians, but I will say that I believed all of the diesel propaganda posted on the Internet. Never again.

 

These are all good points, but I bet the driving factor is there are very few cheap diesel generators. If you have a diesel coach engine, it would be eaiser to have a diesel generator (only one kind of fuel to buy). The costs for a diesel coach and diesel generator would be higher than most people would pay for that class of RV.

A gas engine eliminates that problem.

 

jswanitz I have owned and pulled with about every gas big block that Ford has made. The V10 will out pull and get better milage than any of them and get better mileage, plus my camper is a lot bigger and heavier than I had back then (15K).
As far as class C MH its the noise smell and weight, I'm on a VFD and your Rescue unit has a PSD 7.3, its not all that fast and it is very load in the cab.
I also don't buy my trucks to win MPG contest I buy them to work with and pull my toys, but with the V10 I get better mileage as a bonus.
There is one thing that the diesel guys forget, Us old gassers have been pulling big rigs long before the oil burners came along and I for one will be doing it in the future

Denny

 

It's the big D, and what it stands for and makes a good extra $100.00 difference in the monthly payments and more. The pride of owning the D.

 

Thanks to all for the insightful replies.

When I made mention of the "horrible" gas mileage, it was only in reference to the countless threads on gas vs. diesel, etc. As many have said, and I fully accept, when you buy a vehicle like this you aren't looking for high mpg. My comments were purely tongue in cheek in regards to the high numbers of V10's I see on the road and their "reported" "bad" mpg.

I currently drive a 2001 Expy 4x4, and with mixed local driving, I average only 12.5 mpg, so I am well prepared for the trips to the pumps. No big deal.

I love hearing all of the solid endorsements for the V10. I have spent many hours on this website viewing the PSD and V10 forums, and I can honestly say that my purchasing decision has changed in the past year of doing research. It looks like I will be ordering a V10 early next year (not too far off now!), as none of the local dealerships seem to have them on their lots. It's largely PSD's as we all can seem to attest to.
I guess that by ordering I will get exactly what I want, so that's a plus!

On another note, and this may be blasphemous, but are there any other good sites that you guys visit for info on the V10 other than FTE?
I have seen 1 or 2 others, and none compare to this site. Just looking for a bit more info.
If a request like this isn't kosher, I can completely understand.
Google, for once, isn't giving me a lot of solid search results though.

Thanks again!

JS

 

Motorhomes predominantly go to the older part of the population. People who are concerned with livability, finding fuel and having something familiar. A gas engine is familiar, it's relatively quiet, it's powerful, and above all, it's $6,500 cheaper than the diesel. There are larger and larger numbers of full timers, but most RV'ers are part time, and their rig sits in the driveway alot. A gas engined truck is easy to understand, change the oil, buy gas, etc, etc. Not every station sells diesel, old people are scared of truck stops, and are scared of running out of fuel in a strange place. They're alot more vulnerable than us young, studly guys.

But most importantly, the RV manufacturers know what their customers will buy, so most cab/chassis are ordered with gas engines. There are diesels, lots of them in class A van cutaways. But unless a guy is going to spend big, and buy a diesel pusher, the gas engines offer way too much value for usage than a diesel. I would venture to guess that 80% of diesels in pick-ups are there because the owner thought diesels were cool, not for their severe duty usage ability. All my Ford diesels lived an easy life, pulling 3 kids and a Shih Tzu 99% of their run-time. So there, that's my two cents worth, Ken

 

The way I first heard about the Ford triton V10 was a Good Sam RV article many years ago. Ford said it was a bridge compromise with Fords need to get out of the emmisions poor design of the 460 V8 and the coach builders need for good power to weight ratios. NoMo has it right, for this class vehicle 400 extra lbs of the PSD kills front axle weight ratings and GVWRs.

We V10 owners think getting the V10 option in a SuperDuty truck was a rare stroke of Ford genius. However Ford does not see it that way, and for each model year has limited production to less than 15% with V10. Curios no? Considering the constant questions about where are all the V10s, I am convinced that Fords marketing Gurus are crack smokers. Or is it possible that the profit ratio for the PSD is really that good?

As stated above, if you compare fuel effeciency to the PSD series, it would seem that the V10 sucks (pun intended) but compared to ANY other gas powered truck in the last 20 years they are 25% more economical to run and easily meet the strict EPA requirements.

With the empty size of my truck, a 4 door long bed 4x4, I am tickled to get 12.5- 13.7mpg! All loaded down and smoking up the mountains 7-9mpg ain't bad if I compare it to my lighter 2 door 460 V8 powered truck that barely got 10mpg empty and as low as 4 mpg going over snoqualime pass!

I own PSDs and there are reasons for needing them but the V10 is effecient, powerful, quiet, powerful, smells nicer, quiet, powerful, and initially much cheaper, did I say powerful yet?

 

Fredvon4,

Thanks for your concise response.
However, I have one remaining question, and that is, are the V10's powerful?

All kidding aside, if there is one constant that I hear about the V10 is that no owner has ever begged for more power from this engine.

I have to wonder if perhaps you aren't right about Ford gurus being crack smokers. There are a lot of V10's in my area, as I stated above, and I can't help but wonder why they don't push this motor more. Like you say, maybe it's because of the profit margin on the PSD. Macho truck owner, big engine aura=more buyers(?).

I'll take the V10, thanks!

Reading this forum compared to the PSD forum; I sure don't see nearly the number of complaints about the trucks powerplant. Too many strange problems in the PSD forum for me to take that chance, and I don't need that much vehicle or maintenance to get the job done.

thanks to all for a lively discussion, and have a safe and happy New Year.
Keep those SD V10's in the garage tomorrow night, if you plan on having a lot of "fun". I want to talk with you all next year too!

JS

 

I have to agree with alot of the reason's above: Extra weight of the motor, maintenance of the motor, cost of fuel, and cost of the motor. I also wonder if there is a human factor of having a vehicle driven by so many different people. Ie the little idosyscantrices of a Diesel vs gas. IE fear of someone putting gas in a diesel that has always driven a gas motor.

I had two V10's and they were good motors. I now have a 04 6.0. Remember lets keep this friendly. I love my diesel but being an ex 10'er I do respect the motor and like to check in on it here and there.

Yes you will get different opions from the different groups that respond. Both motors have their pros and cons and both are really good motors. It basically comes down to that little thing called personal choice.

 

In Fords defense I will add that they did a very good job with the powerplant and trans options from 99 to present SuperDuty trucks and chassis cabs.

I think they are nuts for not offering the van series the exact same options. I really have no good explanation of the V8, V10, PSD production ratios. I posted elswhere some time ago that I think it truly might be a marketing problem. I meet a lot of folks who believe the V10 to be a performance motor of the "Lightning class" and everybody just assumes that the V10 MUST get TERRIBLE fuel milage. I don't think Ford wants to spend the advertising bucks to set the record straight and has accepted the notion that the V10 motor fills a small 10-15% nitch market.

BUt there is another curiosity to factor. If they never intended to "push" the V10, then why the 2005 V10 upgrade to 3 valve, several major intake and exhaust redesigns, and mating to the torqueshift? Took a lot of effort to R&D, Test, and change production to do this.

They seem to "push" the PSD, hardly even mention the V10, and keep totally quiet about the variable timing, 3 valve 5.4L V8 that has power levels equal to the 99-04 V10s. Very curious indeed.

One last interesting factoid: This last week there is a fellow asking about the wisdom and our opinions reguarding a 405,000mile V10 truck he is considering buying used. This week I saw my first V10 head off the engine for a rebuild. The motor had 341,000miles. And this week I was at the gas pump and a bread delivery Van pulled in and I struck up a V10 conversation, he showed me the 275,000miles on his odometer. So in one week I came across three high milage V10s and they seem to be holding up pretty good in my opinion.

 

Happy New Year to everyone at FTE. I too find it very interesting that V10s are not that common in Superduties. Here are my thoughts on how this happened. I have liked Ford pickups all my life. I was born in 1950 and I learned how to drive on a 1955 Ford pickup when I was 15 years old. I bought a 65 F100 in 1973 and I bought brand new a 75 F250, 80 F250 (lemon) 81 F250, 88 F250, 95 F250, 2000 F350 and now my 2004 F350. The last 3 trucks were PSDs and I have an 05 V10 on order. If I am a typical Ford customer you may start to see a lot more V10s out there. 05 has the torqueshift (love it in my 04) and now makes more HP and torque than my 95 PSD did. I went for the 460 Gasser in 88 to get the maximum trailer tow ratings which were much higher than the naturally aspirated diesel option. When people asked me why I got a 460 I said " because Ford doesn't make a 560". I simply wanted the most powerful stock engine I could get in a Ford pickup. In 95 the PSD was the **** of the walk and that is what I got. I like gas motors but I went Diesel for more power. I never keep my trucks long enough to worry about a diesel living longer than a gasser. Now Ford has come up with a more powerful V10, torqshift auto, tow ratings as high as the PSD, Hey I am going to try one out. I hate waking people up at 4 in the morning, the smell of diesel makes my wife sick, my 04 F350 is a nice truck but the PSD in it has caused me to be towed (hauled) twice and now has an oil leak. It averages under 13 MPG so why in the heck would I try out another PSD and yet all the diesel owner friends I have, Duramax, Cummins, guys too think I am absolutely nuts to go back to a gasser. This is what marketing does. It changes the way people think! Good luck and good health in 2005.

 

I own a V10 excursion and a diesal super duty. I love em both, The v10 is for family use. I get 16 mpg on the highway at 65 mph. (not towing anything) I think thats great for a big truck. I tend to use about a qt. of oil per 1000 miles. Truck has 56,000 mikes on it. You guys know the pull a v10 has and how quite it is. The diesal I have is great but noisey for a family vechical. I use mine for work and hauling.