Ok, I keep finding things I know nothing about so I will keep asking questions until you all get tired of it and ban me Gives everyone something to do though...

I have read a bit about oil sampling and I would like to know when, where, and how to go about getting it done. And once I get it done how do I make sense of the results?

Also my dealer said they will do the first oil change free, should I have them give me a sample of the oil so I can send it out to be tested? Or is there a way I can get some out easily before I take it in?

 

See http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

 

'Everyone' has questions..

'Daryl' gave you the Blackstone Labratories address, and if you request one, they'll send you a free sample test kit.. The test itself isn't free (20.00), and you can 'either' get your results by mail, or by email even quicker.. With the sample kit is a 'simulated' test that shows you what the test/results will look like.. It will give a listing of all the 'elements' in your oil as well as a 'comment' box that will give you a 'heads up' explaination of anything out of the ordinary..The sample needs or should be taken 'mid stream' (or close) on the oil drain.. If you can trust your dealer to get it right, than it would be a good 'sample'.. If not, you can have them do the first change and get second change done (witnessed) and send it off youself.. Complete the Oil Sample Information Slip and send it off.. If you have trouble understanding the results you can always ask..


.............................HP................

 

Ok, I keep finding things I know nothing about so I will keep asking questions until you all get tired of it and ban me

We will never ban you and one day you will be answering the questions for new folks

 

There are many oil analysis labs that can do your used oil analysis.

Like a lot of labs, some are good, some are bad.

Some conform to and maintain certifications for lab accuracy and procedures. Some offer electronic analysis results, some even free software from which to compile your historical results, some don't. Some will send you sample bottles with labeled or bar-coded labels, some don't. Some provide free phone consultation on results, some don't.

Some offer different types of analysis that others do not.

Most charge about twenty bucks for a good analysis of your sample. Many times this includes pre-paid shipping and pre-addressed labels to them. The Postal Service does not like handling this type of stuff so check in advance about this and with other shipping alternatives as well. (A good lab will tell you about this up front!)

(You have to be carefull how the sample is collected each time in order to produce consistant results and sterile containers from your lab are reccomended.)

To the best of my knowledge Ford does not offer this service to their customers even for a price through their service dealers. (But Cummins does and so does Cat!)

So you will apparently have to shop around for a good and econimical independent lab.

If you are ito the technical aspects of oil analysis, I suggest you do a web search for "National Tribology". I think you will find there at least part of the technical type info you need there.

One of the critical things is the volume of samples your analysis labs do on a particular type of engine. Understand that "typical" of your sample results will mean that the lab has enough information to establish and maintain a baseline and average for you particular engine. The labs internal statistical averages are often the basis for their determination as to whether you sample is "good, bad or cause for concern". What I'm saying here is there may be a large difference over time between a CAT 3208 diesel used in construction and your 6.0 Powerstroke used mostly on the road.

Just because both are diesels, doesn't mean both results would be the same.

The other thing, is that if you are going to do oil analysis on your engine, it is not unusual for your first or break-in sample to be slightly "out of bounds" for contaminants or for metal content. Your first analysis may contain microscopic metalic components from parts machining and also dust from the maufacturing environment where your engine was assembled. In fact it may take as many as two oil and filter changes to reach your "expected normal baseline" for contaminant and metalic content. From that you can trend your results given you have a good lab doing the analysis.

I would suggest that from the outset of this process, that you choose an oil and filter, and use these at each oil change inorder to keep all these variables as a basic constant in your trends. For instance changing from a Rotella to a Delvac oil is not reccomended because the additive packages (chemisrty) will not be the same.

If you arer real serious about this, do two additional things. At every oil change, collect and keep three samples instead of one. The first is the used oil sample that goes to your chosen analysis lab. The second is a used oil sample that you keep on your shelf in case you need an opinion from another lab. The third is a sample of the virgin oil you are putting in your engine.

(Far be it from me to say you might buy contaminated oil and put it in your engine. But to be honest, I've see this happen with new industrial gear oils in sealed drums that could not meet ISO standards for cleanliness even if the Pope himself had said a prayer over them!)

In the oil indusrty, there are a lot of formulators and combiners of components of virgin stock that are authorized to sell or bottle under manufacturers names. I suggest you use a brand name oil from a recognized name of a refiner, and record lot numbers for you records on all of your virgin samples you keep.

It takes less than an ounce of oil for your lab to do a traditional sample, though you will send them about twice that amount. You need to ask them whether they retain the remaining amount for return to you or for potential retest. A good lab will keep the remaining portion of your sample on hand for about ten days after they send you their report. If you get a "wacky" report you usually can get a free retest, or request that they send you the remainder of your sample.

One other thing, your lab should have the ability to perform waht is called an analytical ferrogram. This requires an expert analyst that can examine your oil particles under a microscope with the oil components polarized by a magnetic field while being viewed under the microscope. This technique can determine the type of wear metals and the nature of their source and the nature of the mechanical action producing these wear particles. Not all labs have a staff with the necessary experience or ability to perform these tests, much less the specilalized equiptment to perform these tests should you need them.

Some of these labs also conduct tests on fuels and other liquids. Particularly those fuels used in aviation activities. You might ask whether they have this capability as well, as this is sometimes a mark of a seasoned analysis lab.

Good luck in your research project.

Maybe you could post your analysis results for other to see?

 

Nicely done Catfish_Man.

 

Yes, very well written!

 

Tim, did you get my PM?

 

One other helpfull hint......if you plan to change your own oil (I got the "first oil change free" coupon also, and tossed it) is to get a Fomoto valve, to make the changfe even eaiser....... http://www.fumotovalve.com

The only dumb question is the one you never ask that ends up bring the saving grace!!

 

Ditto on AV3Fire and don't overfill your crankcase. You should only have to refill with 13.5 quarts. If the dipstick is anywhere in the crosshatch area, DON'T add any more oil. Overfilling can cause a variety of naggy performance issues. It is not limited to 6.0s.

 

Catfish Man
That was a clear explanation of the lab process. Thanks.
Your idea of posting the results is good also. I have posted mine on my gallery and will continue to do so. I think we can all benefit and together may identify any trends that may show up with the 6.0.

 

Thanks for the comments.

For those that have the 6.0 diesel:

There is one additinal test of oil analysis that may be required or reccomended by your lab after your sample results.

Any substantial "fuel dillution" will undoubtetly affect viscosity of your oil in a base series of tests for oil viscosity.

From what I've read here, rare injector sealing problems on the original release of the 2003 powerstroke 6.0 (if any) should be easily picked-up by such tests from a reputable lab.

The apparent problem with leaking fuel into crankcase oil was also apparently immediately corrected by Ford via certain changes in injector system design and injector sealing for the early 6.0.

As best as I can tell from this forum, those types of crankcase oil dilution problems from fuel were finally corrected by Ford in or around May of 2003 by installing new fuel injectors and by improved design that better seals the high pressure fuel injection from the crankcase.

(Keep in mind that not very many 2003 6.0 diesels seem prone to this situation at all, and it would seem that this situation is mostly due to parts tolerances, early assembly procedures or to cumulative tolerance of the original injectors versus their seats inside the heads.)

(Am I wrong?)

I'd like to see sample results from an early 2003 6.0 engine with a problem! I think oil analysis would have pointed out this situation right away!

The critical part being oil viscosity at low temps. If those analysis results came back outside of expected results then the analysis lab should have automatically run a "water or fuel dilution" test. (Or at least contacted their customer to recommend this further test!)

Unfortunately for 2003 6.0 owners, there is no guarantee that oil samples taken at oil-change intervals of 3,000 or more miles might detect such fuel dilution. To wit, if dilution began randomly, you may have already done engine damage before your next oil change and sample.

If you have a 6.0 or other engine with any kind of suspected damage, you would be wise to collect a used oil sample for your independent analysis. The basis of which may provide you with additional information for your own use. But, you need to make sure your Ford dealer or other chosen mechanic knows up front that an oil sample is to be drawn from a your sump before any changes. (You own the oil in your vehicle just like you own every part of that engine, or door latch or whatever. Your service dealer is obligated to give you back every part that they replace for you! In addition, you have every right to keep and own every original part from your vehicle, if such is replaced and charged to you on a service ticket. I never have walked out of a service facility without at least having the part they replaced in my own hand. In some cases I've even kept that part for future reference.)

Some sevice dealers will tell you that if a part is replaced under warranty that they own the part as part of their own warranty process. Legally this is true, but those warranty provisions do not prevent you, yourself from viewing or documenting the replaced part that was originally owned by you under your warranty claim. You are legally free to photograph or otherwise document the changed part even if it is replaced as part of any warranty agreement with the vehicle manufacturer or by their service provider! Further, your oil is not a warranted component under any part of Fords warrany program. The oil belongs to you at purchase even under their full warranty of "so many miles or months"! (So do your tires, brake shoes and some more items like filters and all.)

Oil is a part of what you own and that you bought as part of your purchase. The manufacturer says that they allow you the right to change oils, tires and all as long as that oil and other items meets their specific criteria as listed in your vehicles owners manual.

(It's as simple as that for the oil you should use!)

Run the oil that meets the OEM spec... by their book. Keep records about when the oil was changed. Take samples for analysis if you want to spend the money for such, or if you need to produce documentation for a specific problem. (Historical records of oil analysis may be of some value to you, but I have never seen this to be that important for such vehicles.)

Otherwise, enjoy the ride, and don't worry about parts per million of iron!