Clear on existing single stage ???
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Senior User
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From: Spokane USA
Clear on existing single stage ???
I am considering shooting clear over the hood on my 57 F600. It was repainted last fall with Martin Senour single stage urethane. What sort of prep is necessary to make this work. My problem with the current paint is that it has a lot of orange peel ..... I know I shot it when the temp was too cold ..... but anyway thought maybe some clear would allow me to color sand the clear and end up with a final look that would not have so much "peel". I don't want to risk color sanding the current single stage, and end up having to recolor shoot the whole thing. Might have to recolor anyway if the clear is not the right idea, but any help would be most appreciated.
.... having fun still learning how to do this painting stuff ....
Bob in Spokane
.... having fun still learning how to do this painting stuff ....
Bob in Spokane
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Joined: Sep 2002
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I would color sand and polish it. If you clear coat the hood you could risk the chance of the clear peeling off because of it not cross linking / or being a compatable system. If you are thinking that their may not be enough paint on it, then just sand it apply a couple more coats of color then polish it out if you still have some of the materials left over.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 191
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From: Portland Oregon
Orange peel, I think, is caused by spray
drops hitting and drying out before they
flow out so rather than cold temp I
would look at your reducer or thinner
products and use. Also review gun
set up and use. If you are using HVLP keep
your gun 6 to 8 inches from your panel.
This is hard to do as it seems counter
to the "intuitive" rattle can distance.
It is nerve wracking because you are walking up
to the dreaded "run in the paint" point
of no return. You must partner with your
paint and trust it to flow out properly.
Ckeck your gun tip size..use what the
paint tech sheets recommend.
Don't get me wrong..cold temp painting
stretches all the envelopes..I just
thought cold temp=orange peel runs
counter to my thinking. Any body
else thoughts appreciated?
drops hitting and drying out before they
flow out so rather than cold temp I
would look at your reducer or thinner
products and use. Also review gun
set up and use. If you are using HVLP keep
your gun 6 to 8 inches from your panel.
This is hard to do as it seems counter
to the "intuitive" rattle can distance.
It is nerve wracking because you are walking up
to the dreaded "run in the paint" point
of no return. You must partner with your
paint and trust it to flow out properly.
Ckeck your gun tip size..use what the
paint tech sheets recommend.
Don't get me wrong..cold temp painting
stretches all the envelopes..I just
thought cold temp=orange peel runs
counter to my thinking. Any body
else thoughts appreciated?
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 999
Likes: 1
From: Willamette Valley Oregon
<cr>
Frank is right on. Dupont lists the following reasons for orange peel:
Improper gun adjustment
Improper technique
Too high of shop temperature
Improper drying (gun fanning)
Improper flash or recoat time
Wrong reducer
Too little reducer
Materials not mixed uniformly
Orange peel is when your product dries before it has a chance to flow out.
Sags and runs on the other hand, could come from cold temp.
Frank is also right on about the gun distance. 6-8 inches is about right for a HLVP gun. A simple way to confirm the correct distance is to do the following:
With an empty gun that has been adjusted correctly and is connected to your air supply, pull the trigger as if you are spraying paint. From about a foot away, with the palm of your free hand, start moving your hand towards the nozzle. At a certain point, you will feel a wall of air. This wall of air is the distance you should be spraying your paint at. I think you'll find it will be about 6-8" from the nozzle. BTW, by doing this with your eyes closed, you will find it easier to feel that wall of air.
Frank is right on. Dupont lists the following reasons for orange peel:
Improper gun adjustment
Improper technique
Too high of shop temperature
Improper drying (gun fanning)
Improper flash or recoat time
Wrong reducer
Too little reducer
Materials not mixed uniformly
Orange peel is when your product dries before it has a chance to flow out.
Sags and runs on the other hand, could come from cold temp.
Frank is also right on about the gun distance. 6-8 inches is about right for a HLVP gun. A simple way to confirm the correct distance is to do the following:
With an empty gun that has been adjusted correctly and is connected to your air supply, pull the trigger as if you are spraying paint. From about a foot away, with the palm of your free hand, start moving your hand towards the nozzle. At a certain point, you will feel a wall of air. This wall of air is the distance you should be spraying your paint at. I think you'll find it will be about 6-8" from the nozzle. BTW, by doing this with your eyes closed, you will find it easier to feel that wall of air.
Last edited by Aekisu; Mar 10, 2004 at 03:04 PM.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 308
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From: St.Paul, MN
i am thinking of shooting my truck with single stage paint, thats whats on it now from the fsactory. At my shop we use Sherwin WIlliams Genesis aurtomotive fleet finish. I paint cement mixers and concrete so orange peel is accepted, but i dont want too much on my truck. Im using a DeVilbiss JGA 510 with a 2qt pressure pot, and i believe .5mm tip. might i be ok???i will mix the paint right, with reducer and hardener, thats not an issue. Any replies apprecuiated
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
From: northern Ky
Re: Clear on existing single stage ???
Originally posted by robertr
I am considering shooting clear over the hood on my 57 F600. It was repainted last fall with Martin Senour single stage urethane. What sort of prep is necessary to make this work. My problem with the current paint is that it has a lot of orange peel ..... I know I shot it when the temp was too cold ..... but anyway thought maybe some clear would allow me to color sand the clear and end up with a final look that would not have so much "peel". I don't want to risk color sanding the current single stage, and end up having to recolor shoot the whole thing. Might have to recolor anyway if the clear is not the right idea, but any help would be most appreciated.
.... having fun still learning how to do this painting stuff ....
Bob in Spokane
I am considering shooting clear over the hood on my 57 F600. It was repainted last fall with Martin Senour single stage urethane. What sort of prep is necessary to make this work. My problem with the current paint is that it has a lot of orange peel ..... I know I shot it when the temp was too cold ..... but anyway thought maybe some clear would allow me to color sand the clear and end up with a final look that would not have so much "peel". I don't want to risk color sanding the current single stage, and end up having to recolor shoot the whole thing. Might have to recolor anyway if the clear is not the right idea, but any help would be most appreciated.
.... having fun still learning how to do this painting stuff ....
Bob in Spokane
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Senior User
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: northern Ky
Originally posted by fordtruckfan90
i am thinking of shooting my truck with single stage paint, thats whats on it now from the fsactory. At my shop we use Sherwin WIlliams Genesis aurtomotive fleet finish. I paint cement mixers and concrete so orange peel is accepted, but i dont want too much on my truck. Im using a DeVilbiss JGA 510 with a 2qt pressure pot, and i believe .5mm tip. might i be ok???i will mix the paint right, with reducer and hardener, thats not an issue. Any replies apprecuiated
i am thinking of shooting my truck with single stage paint, thats whats on it now from the fsactory. At my shop we use Sherwin WIlliams Genesis aurtomotive fleet finish. I paint cement mixers and concrete so orange peel is accepted, but i dont want too much on my truck. Im using a DeVilbiss JGA 510 with a 2qt pressure pot, and i believe .5mm tip. might i be ok???i will mix the paint right, with reducer and hardener, thats not an issue. Any replies apprecuiated
Is it metallic? Do you just do solid colors on the job?
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Thread Starter
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Senior User
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From: Spokane USA
Thanks guys,
I would have to say that clear over existing single stage is not the thing to do, given what those of you with good experience have to say. I'll just get a little more single stage color and reshoot the hood. I'll also work on the gun technique to lessen the "peel". This truck is a "shop truck" but I would like it to look decent. I'm more of a chassis and drivetrain builder than a painter, so am learning a lot as this project goes along.
I am pretty convinced now that from here on I'll use base coat / clear coat. It might be a little more costly, but in the long run maybe not, as it seems that with enough clear you get the opportunity to fix most any problems with "peel", and runs in the clear.
Thanks again.
Bob in Spokane
I would have to say that clear over existing single stage is not the thing to do, given what those of you with good experience have to say. I'll just get a little more single stage color and reshoot the hood. I'll also work on the gun technique to lessen the "peel". This truck is a "shop truck" but I would like it to look decent. I'm more of a chassis and drivetrain builder than a painter, so am learning a lot as this project goes along.
I am pretty convinced now that from here on I'll use base coat / clear coat. It might be a little more costly, but in the long run maybe not, as it seems that with enough clear you get the opportunity to fix most any problems with "peel", and runs in the clear.
Thanks again.
Bob in Spokane
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 248
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From: North Central Washington
I have a Bronco that almost ALL the clear has peeled off of the hood. A painting professional did the work, so go figure... ANyhow, I read that sometimes you need something called an "intercoat" applied, that will make the clear stick properly. Mine sure did NOT and peels off in enormous ugly sheets like saran wrap! All that is left on the hood is about 2 inches at the very front. ALL the rest of the hood is now bare, and FLAT paint!
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 279
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From: northern Ky
Your problem is not uncommon, it seems to happen on some repaints. I think the paint is at fault more than the painter. The intercoat you probably heard of is an "adhesion promoter", used in repair jobs when clear is blended over original paint. Unless I'm too far outdated, I don't think it's ever used when clear is being applied over a freshly applied basecoat.
Your hood should probably be sanded, and then resealed, colored and cleared.
marc
Your hood should probably be sanded, and then resealed, colored and cleared.
marc
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 308
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From: St.Paul, MN
Originally posted by marc9000
Spray just a little wetter than you do on the job, to lessen the orange peel. Is it metallic? Do you just do solid colors on the job?
Spray just a little wetter than you do on the job, to lessen the orange peel.
Is it metallic? Do you just do solid colors on the job?
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