Farmerphil,

I use Delo 400 15-40 Dino Oil, and I know that it has good anti-foaming qualities. But I don't really know about the Shell. I suspect it is a very good oil. Its surely been proven over and over. As has the Delo. I do know this. If the oil in the HPOP has foamed a little, and is carrying air bubbles, the injector firing will greatly be affected. So obviously an oil that did not contain good anti-foam qualities, would not be as good in that regard. Possibly that is why some of the synthetic enthusiasts feel the synthetic runs better in their engine. Maybe it has great anti-foam characteristics. I have no first hand knowledge, though. I just know that delo has good anti-foam qualities.

By the way, Costco Wholesale sells Delo 400 15-40 for $1.50 a quart, as previously posted by Quad. I buy a case of 6 gallons for 36 bucks. For those of you that don't know Costco, they are similar to Sam's.


As for the p-----g contest between you and the other guys, this is not the place to air it out. But you as a new member need to understand, that many of PSD owners are not young folks, most have been around the block several times concerning Diesels, and many are even retired mechanics that have a very good knowledge of their oil, fuels, and engines. Because of that, blanket statements will be challenged if there is not evidence to back it up. But challenges need to be kept gentlemenly, and not meant to embarass anyone either. As a couple of guys requested, to show the proof, that is enough, from them, I think. Then you should show your proof.

 

I have been a member since 1997, I have not been on for about a year. This is a new screen name because I forgot my original. I just recently decided to get back into it. But that is besides the point. Mike has continued to belittle me with statements that are irrelevant to regards with the oil debate.

 

Farmerphil,

Agreed. I think most folks understand you are trying to help.

As some proof for you, try this site: A synthetic site, conveniently missing Delo and rotella in the testing, but food for thought.

http://www.smartsynthetics.com/artic...il_testing.htm


And this site:

https://www.caltexoils.com/NR/exeres...MODE=Published


Interesting support article on the HEVI--------


There is a system developed by Caterpillar and Navistar (more by Cat as I've heard) that uses a fuel injection computer operating Hydraulic Electronic Unit Injectors (HEUI). In this system you have all the increased flexibility of electronic control in a diesel fuel system. An engine driven oil pump (separate from normal lube pump) provides high pressure feed oil (pressure varies from 700-3500 psi) to the HEUI. The HEUI contains an intensifier section and a more or less conventional nozzle. The intensifier is the pump that uses the oil pushing down on a piston that is approx. 7/8" that has a plunger below it that is 1/8" or slightly less. This gives the HIGH pressure diesel pressure that oscillates the nozzle in the conventional manner as on diesel injection. In effect the HEUI is a pump and injector in one. The fuel inj ECM controls how long the oil puhes down the intensifier piston to control its stroke and thus volume by electrically opening the inlet to intensifier piston. The Fuel ECM also regulates how high the oil pressure is through an electrically controlled bleed valve (more bleed-off lower pressure and vice versa).
This is a "drive by wire" fuel system where there is no throttle cable just a potentiometer from accel pedal to ECM.
A host of sensors, most like those used on gasoline fuel injection, are used to provide info for the ECM to operate with. A low pressure lift pump provides fuel to injectors.
2. I have a Ford diesel PU, the filters are available at W-M for it.
I was just referring to the filters for the PU.
3. I know of Mobil Delvac. It is used by many diesel operators but is not as readily available at outlets that sell it at a reasonable price. As far as I know it is very good oil. I don't know if it is any better than the rotella-T or the Delo 400. If it lowers the noise level it must be a good product. I know of a bunch of Volvo diesels that have gone 200K+ ay 7500 mile interval for oil change. Oil gets dirty more or less directly with the amount of fuel consumed as that is where the contamination comes from. Of course number of starts and length of trips made between cold starts are certainly factors. Non-turbo diesels are not that unkind to their oil at all.
4. I don't change my oil any more frequently than the factory interval unless I do something unusual. I live 30+ miles from work and don't drive much in stop-n-go traffic. I NEVER start an engine and run it w/o it warming up and staying at operating temp for 10+ minutes ( I had to move my truck to get car out and I drove it 10 miles down the road and back just to not violate what I just wrote). I've had vehicles that accumulated over 150K miles w/o any engine problems or noises. It is always safe (not necessarily to the environment) to change it more often if your driving violates the things I listed as my driving patterns.
5. I don't know of a site with any good tech info. The Shell site I found in a search struck me as being a sales pitch more than a technical source.
The newest specs for diesel oils for these HEUI-systemed motors requires additives that are more specialized to work well and long in the injectors (foaming oil makes engine run crappy, best way to tell if your Ford with Powerstroke needs an oil change) and carry an API rating CF-4 (might be CG-2 now). Diesels use the 15W-40 and gas uses 10W-30 so they don't feel the need to try to make one oil fit all.
I think I would use 10W-30 in that 460. Increased circulation in gas motors gets rid of moisture and fuel much better. 15W-40 is for 100 degree weather in that engine. Thick oil= sludge in a gas motor. 20W-50 is bad medicine!


IMHO, foaming can be a real pain for Diesels. So, whatever oil you guys use, make sure it doesnt foam, especially in the newer Powerstrokes, or add an aftermarket anti-foam additive. Of course, thats a new can of worms. Who really delivers in the anti-foam additives? Beats me. Every time I check my engine oil, I only see oil....not white or yellowish goo on my stick.

Sorry this is so long winded. I thought these guys were straying a little.....

 

Yes CAT did invent the system--but Ford was the first to use the system. Oil with good anti-foaming chracteristics is critical to good and efficient engine operation. You did a very good job at discribing the way the system worked, I was just giving a brief overview of the system operation, maybe I should have gone more indepth in my description.

 

Here we are on ¡°foaming¡± again¡_

This forum is a valuable resource. But the value we receive is directly related to the accuracy of the information contained therein. Recently someone posted a litany of complaints about their 7.3 DIT. The complainant continued on about how their truck would not run and subsequently, what a piece of junk it was. Finally one of our members, one who seems to possess infinite knowledge about this engine, asked the complainant for the exact codes from the ECU. Suddenly, the subscriber who had attempted to broadcast misinformation about what he claimed to be an inferior product, disappeared. I was happy to see intelligence trump ignorant opinion and dumb hearsay. We were all well served by the member who confronted the misinformed individual because I believe that it in our best interests that posts containing content where opinion is presented as fact are confronted.

A while ago one of this forum's participants submitted a post to this thread questioning the compatibility of Rotella with the Powerstroke engine. The same participant also stated that a longer oil change interval was made possible by another non-synthetic product.

This was a bold statement considering the fact that many of us have used Rotella for hundreds of thousands of miles in multiple units. Moreover, of the dozens of samples I have had analyzed since 1994, not once have I ever received a comment other than, ¡°continue to next sampling period¡±. I was therefore surprised that an oil about which I have no evidence of ever breaking down, even under harsh harvest conditions and on the occasional extended interval, was suddenly ¡°incompatible¡± with these engines.

Two of us responded to those posts by politely requesting additional information. Ideally a side-by-side oil analysis of the two oils, run in similar units in the same environment would have been provided. But in this case even manufactures¡¯ data sheets, product literature or an independent study by a third party would have been useful tools to back up the previously unsupported claims.

Instead of providing that information, we received a somewhat fictional account of how the HEUI system actually operates as well as a ¡°correction¡± but no actual data about the prior claims. (This is not the time but just for starters, 1- tachometer data is pulled from the CPS, not the mystery ¡°crank sensor¡± as suggested. 2- Ford has nothing to do with the HEUI system. 3-HEUI is a Caterpillar patent licensed for use by Navistar International. Instead of correcting the rest of this subscriber's misinformation, let's hope she refrains from making up any more facts.)

There are a lot of products on the market. Presumably a common interest in the 7.3 powerstroke brings many of us here. For that reason, we all have good reason to want this site to contain accurate information. It is in our interests that we all support competence, experience and respect on this site while seeking to expose ill-informed hyperbole to the light of day.

Given the vacuous silence regarding earlier claims of Rotella ¡°incompatibility¡± and ¡°foaming¡± I am led to conclude that the product is just as solid as those who depend upon it day in and day out. Until someone actually demonstrates any verifiable data concerning these claims, I think it would be the acme of foolishness for anyone to give these claims any merit.

I salute those of you who continue to contribute your experience, knowledge and good information to our common understanding. I learn a lot from many of these posts. And may those who are prone to post opinions unsubstantiated by fact or experience be disinclined to do so.

-Mike

 

to: mschultz


It seems strange to me that you post time after time that you are here to share information and to learn. This thread was started with an observation about a green tinge to Rotella, your first post, every paragraph after never ending paragraph, spouted information on every thing but the subject at hand, you bated others to follow you into your agenda, not once but several times. You have posted several thousand meaningless words on a variety of subjects but never ever contributed to the subject at hand. I know I would have appreciated, and I suspect John and others would have also appreciated, that if you didnt know what caused the oil to turn green, then dang say so. Why do you insist on hijacking a thread on an important topic (to me anyway) and stirring things up. In my estimation this thread was going fine and we were all sharing information until you posted a demeaning arrogant post with all the wrong answers and insighted others to debate the merits of Rotella oil vs Delo. Why don't you just go ahead and post the "HEY EVERYONE look at me im great" paragraph, and let those who want and can contribute do so.
I can't believe that you can justify in your mind that what you do here is beneficial to any one, you have single handedly discouraged me from ever posting here or visiting this site in the future, when I first came to this site I was telling many of my friends this was a great site ..... I guess I just had not been here long enough to be exposed to this type of arrogance!

 

mschultz:

1) where then does the cps get its information to send readings to the tach?

2) Yes the HEUI fuel system was invented by CAT, I did not say other wise. Yes International was the first to use the system and are paying CAT for being allowed to use the system. And yes Ford does have something to do with the HEUI fuel system because INTERNATION PRODUCES THE dt444e ENGINE WHICH FORD USES---YOU WOULD CALL THIS ENGINE THE "POWERSTROKE DIESEL" which FORD puts in their trucks and what you have in your truck. So you have a HEUI fuel system in your engine, but I guess it doesn't run because Ford doesn't have anything to do with the HUEI fuel system.

3) I appologized for saying that Shell broke down too early, I have stated that earlier. When you send your oil off for anlaysis, they do not check for foaming, they check for contaminates and the lubricating aspects. When you have three gallons of oil running through your engine it is not a critical matter in regards to your oil foaming or not. BUT, when your oil foams, there is not enough oil in the passage for the injector piston to compress and make the injector fire efficiently. Sometimes this no oil situation can cause rough running or a miss. I apologize to everyone that has a bad taste in their mouth due to this thread. I really did begin by trying to help, but in latest replies I have been doing nothing but defending myself, I feel as though I am running a race for political office.
Thank you all.

 

"INTERNATION" = INTERNATIONAL

 

Thread locked til further notice