ok here it goes - a friend of mine is looking to get some power tools - welder - air compressor - might get a drill press - other stuff like that - well he was asking me "would it be better to go with 220 or 110 what would be more Efficient" well i told him that it doesn’t matter except with 110 you will spend little more on wire because of the size and the breaker again because of size. as far as being efficient the difference is minimal. Well there would be such a small difference in amount of electricity used you would never know it even if both motors ran all the time. for the most part depending on SF of the motor and the Efficiency of the specific motor.

well he doesn’t believe me and i tried to explain to him why that is but i think i lost him. he isnt too good working or know about electricity but then again he doesn’t want to either.

if you could help me explain to him why the Efficiency for 110 and 220 are the same

Example if you have 110 volt motor 3 HP FLA is 33.6
and same specs but a 220 volt motor 3HP FLA is 16.8

it will cost you almost the same from the electric company to run

 

Yeh, nearly all residential electric users are metered & charged by the KiloWatt Hour for juice, there's little or no price difference. Even 2-phase 220v is easier on a motor cuz more volts (E-EMF) gives more staying power (torque) & proportionally less amps (I) are easier on the windings. Motors draw only as many amps as needed to do their work.
I wired shop and pumphouse for both, and my table saw & 15" radial for 220 cause those old motors had the tabs for either 110v or 220v. For 220v, usually need heavier 2(3) pole circuit breaker and 6-10ga wire depending on the amps carried, length of the wire, and to prevent voltage drop. A few more $ to wire for 220v, but worth it. Copper wire is mo' better.

http://www.electrical-engineering-forum.com/ee/

 

Power tools ruin better on 220. My own personal experience, my tablesaw and dust collector start up faster on 220. On 110 they started up slow, and really dimmed the lights that were on the same circuit. They are much happier on 220. Also many larger compressors only run on 220. You really need a mix of both circuits, and run the bigger stuff on 220.

 

i am not saying that they dont at all all i am saying it is going to cost the same from the electric company

 

that is true, a watt is a watt and cost from the elctric company will be the same. P=IE. (power in watts = voltage X current) The november issue of Popular Woodworking had a good article on this topic. Probably the main benefit to using 220 is that your current is halved, which also reduces the heat of the motor, which equates to longer life of the motor. Also less problem with lights dimming, less blown breakers. When my dust collector was on 110, I would often pop the 15amp breaker firing it up, even with nothing else on the circuit. At 220 the current is half, no more problems with blown breakers. My compressor is a 220 only motor. From my experience, if a tool will allow me to rewire it for 220, I will. The cost of the wire and breakers is not enough to matter.

 

well the wire size would be smaller and cheaper the beaker should be chaper also or about the same --
like me example 3 hp 33.6 amp 110 needs at leat 8AWG
but the 220 is only 16.8 so you could use 12 AWG
if you want to figure in for voltage drop you would have to do it anyway with either one

 

kmrs, yes that's what we saying- the electric co charges by KWH and 110v or 220v is charged the same. 220v is easier on motors. On the other q's, here's the NEC for 3-wire copper nomex, use it or fry:
12ga=20amp(25amp max safety)
10ga=30amp(35amp max safety)
8ga = 40amp
6ga = 55amp

 

As far as how your electricity is billed, some of the eddy-current meters (common residential with the wheel...) spin based on the higher side of the split phase. So an unbalaced feed with, say, 20A draw on one leg and 30A draw on the other would net you the same bill as if both legs were drawing 30A.

Electricity to motors is definitely better when the voltage is higher through the same size wire, since the current is lower for a given amount of work required, and therefore the heating of the wiring itself is less. Same as lower voltage drop in the circuit from wire resistance. Anyway, more voltage available at the tool to do the work means less current draw for the same work. Remember that the meter responds to current demand, and assumes that the voltage is the same at the end device as it is at the meter. This is usually a fair assumption, since you are in fact using power to heat the wires. So, use less to heat the wires using higher voltage, and your consumed watts will be lower.

Note that the same effect is less apparent when you are talking about lighting circuits. In those cases, the effect is that the light dims a little with voltage drop in the wiring, but since you aren't asking the lights for more "work" the same way that you do from a motor, your bill doesn't change when the voltage drop is greater.

It all comes down to how much you are willing to heat the wiring I guess, and whether (really 'how') you want to pay for that. Install larger wiring on your 120V circuits and get the same net result as raising voltage, for the same amount of work required from the circuit.

Someone mentioned that they use larger conductors for their 220V circuits. Hmmm... Copper conductor size is determined based on the current required in a circuit. For a given amount of work required (in watts) you'll use half the current at 220 compared with 110V. Insulation class is a function of voltage in the circuit. Generally, you follow the same wire gauge requirements for both 120 and 220 volt circuits. ie: use 14ga for 15A circuits, whether it's 110 or 220 circuit. If you are wiring the garage, consider going up one size in wiring (to 12ga) in that same 15A circuit, especially if your load list includes a few decent motors. Or upgrade to 10ga for 20A circuits from the required 12ga. The extra capacity will help you get the tool started faster, and it will run cooler for a specific amount of work with the greater voltage available through the larger conductors. The difference in the cost of the cable is negligible, compared with the other coats of installation.


HTH--

Bob

 

Yeh, I heated the wire. Whatever, my last 220v 30A installed for l'il 5kw heaters heated their wires inside right up, 45' of 10ga, 3-wire copper. 220V 21amp 15" radial saw, 12' of 12ga, 3-wire copper. Good draw, no worry about hot wiring to the load.
Good luck with your electrical.

 

thank you i new how they charged i just couldnt explain it it him so he could understand it -- i think i got it now thanks ---

 

I have been paying a lot of attention to this issue with putting air exchangers, heaters etc in my new building. The previous explanations were correct, I think I can state it more simply.
The electric company charges you for the watts you use (KWh). Volts multiplied by amps = watts. (V x A = W). On several pieces of equipment I have had the option of wiring either 110 or 220 volts, but the number of amps required to operate the equipment at 220 has been half the requirement of 110.
So you double the volts, cut the amp requirement in half and end up with the same number of watts which is what you pay for.
You may be able to run smaller wire if you go with 220 but you have to run an extra strand to handle the second phase so it likely is a wash but I don't know that for sure.

 

" but you have to run an extra strand to handle the second phase so it likely is a wash but I don't know that for sure." They are both 2 conductor circuits with ground. Same number of wires, just different breaker.

 

I prefer air tools over electric because they don't get hot and burn up and for size to power ratio, you get more using air.

 

Here is a added benefit to using 220V. Your long lost BUDDIES probably don't have a 220v extension cord so they can't borrow your tools And I ain't telling them I have one. Most of them only have the 220v dryer outlet anyway.