No WMD
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From: Nevada
The current CIA has been described by many former high-ranking CIA officers as becoming well entrenched as just another federal bureaucracy. The star days of the cold war with personal innovation and risk-taking have migrated to secure jobs with higher than average pay and outstanding benefits. That means COLA, CYA and other standard government acronyms now form the 'core values' of a once highly valued agency. When you have management concerned with climbing the ladder based on staying inside the box, it recruits staff with the same mediocre qualities. The military uses their up or out system to remove deadwood, but federal agencies, now with salaries and benefits far exceeding the private sector, perpetuate the process of inbreeding.
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From: 3rd Rock
Originally posted by georgedavila
The current CIA has been described by many former high-ranking CIA officers as becoming well entrenched as just another federal bureaucracy. The star days of the cold war with personal innovation and risk-taking have migrated to secure jobs with higher than average pay and outstanding benefits. That means COLA, CYA and other standard government acronyms now form the 'core values' of a once highly valued agency. When you have management concerned with climbing the ladder based on staying inside the box, it recruits staff with the same mediocre qualities. The military uses their up or out system to remove deadwood, but federal agencies, now with salaries and benefits far exceeding the private sector, perpetuate the process of inbreeding.
The current CIA has been described by many former high-ranking CIA officers as becoming well entrenched as just another federal bureaucracy. The star days of the cold war with personal innovation and risk-taking have migrated to secure jobs with higher than average pay and outstanding benefits. That means COLA, CYA and other standard government acronyms now form the 'core values' of a once highly valued agency. When you have management concerned with climbing the ladder based on staying inside the box, it recruits staff with the same mediocre qualities. The military uses their up or out system to remove deadwood, but federal agencies, now with salaries and benefits far exceeding the private sector, perpetuate the process of inbreeding.
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From: Nevada
How many private sector jobs now receive annual COLA, merit (sorry, grade for time served) increases and provide retirement complete with medical care? As I recall, unionization of all civil service has exceeded 50% with salary/benefits bargained on 'comparable agency' statistics, with no mention of private sector salary levels, the former benchmarks.
I haven't had to look at pay scale comparisons in a couple of years, so can't comment on that. I'll probably take a glance out of curiosity. Just the benefits and job security would make any civil service job very attractive to most Americans. Wait, I forgot we're in an economic boom with jobs to follow.
I haven't had to look at pay scale comparisons in a couple of years, so can't comment on that. I'll probably take a glance out of curiosity. Just the benefits and job security would make any civil service job very attractive to most Americans. Wait, I forgot we're in an economic boom with jobs to follow.
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From: Nevada
The last federal private/public salary comparison, one of the former components of establishing civil service pay, was performed in 1986. Add 17-years of COLA and I'd make an educated guess that a federal janitor has a pretty decent job compared to sweeping up at Wally World. CIA starts at $32-56k without an advanced degree. And all those bennies. As a comparison, a neighbor's daughter, a very bright woman with a master's in accounting and about half-way through her CPA studies just started at a large CPA firm for $42k, health insurance for herself with deductibles and the joke 401k retirement plan. She expects to work 60-70 hours a week, as is the norm in that industry.
I apologize for seemingly getting off-topic, but it seems relelvant when discussing the inadequacies of our intelligence agencies. It's not like they're underpaid. In private industry, you get sacked for incompetance.
I apologize for seemingly getting off-topic, but it seems relelvant when discussing the inadequacies of our intelligence agencies. It's not like they're underpaid. In private industry, you get sacked for incompetance.
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From: Nevada
Originally posted by dono
Like many, I have been abbreviating Weapons of Mass Destruction as WMD. Since It is now apparent that WMD could also mean Weapons of Mass Deception, I will have to spell it out in the future.
Like many, I have been abbreviating Weapons of Mass Destruction as WMD. Since It is now apparent that WMD could also mean Weapons of Mass Deception, I will have to spell it out in the future.
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From: 3rd Rock
Originally posted by georgedavila
The last federal private/public salary comparison, one of the former components of establishing civil service pay, was performed in 1986. Add 17-years of COLA and I'd make an educated guess that a federal janitor has a pretty decent job compared to sweeping up at Wally World. CIA starts at $32-56k without an advanced degree. And all those bennies. As a comparison, a neighbor's daughter, a very bright woman with a master's in accounting and about half-way through her CPA studies just started at a large CPA firm for $42k, health insurance for herself with deductibles and the joke 401k retirement plan. She expects to work 60-70 hours a week, as is the norm in that industry.
I apologize for seemingly getting off-topic, but it seems relelvant when discussing the inadequacies of our intelligence agencies. It's not like they're underpaid. In private industry, you get sacked for incompetance.
The last federal private/public salary comparison, one of the former components of establishing civil service pay, was performed in 1986. Add 17-years of COLA and I'd make an educated guess that a federal janitor has a pretty decent job compared to sweeping up at Wally World. CIA starts at $32-56k without an advanced degree. And all those bennies. As a comparison, a neighbor's daughter, a very bright woman with a master's in accounting and about half-way through her CPA studies just started at a large CPA firm for $42k, health insurance for herself with deductibles and the joke 401k retirement plan. She expects to work 60-70 hours a week, as is the norm in that industry.
I apologize for seemingly getting off-topic, but it seems relelvant when discussing the inadequacies of our intelligence agencies. It's not like they're underpaid. In private industry, you get sacked for incompetance.
So now it is more like the privite sector, you have to put into your own retirement, and that was only 16 years ago.
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From: 3rd Rock
Originally posted by georgedavila
The last federal private/public salary comparison, one of the former components of establishing civil service pay, was performed in 1986. Add 17-years of COLA and I'd make an educated guess that a federal janitor has a pretty decent job compared to sweeping up at Wally World. CIA starts at $32-56k without an advanced degree. And all those bennies. As a comparison, a neighbor's daughter, a very bright woman with a master's in accounting and about half-way through her CPA studies just started at a large CPA firm for $42k, health insurance for herself with deductibles and the joke 401k retirement plan. She expects to work 60-70 hours a week, as is the norm in that industry.
I apologize for seemingly getting off-topic, but it seems relelvant when discussing the inadequacies of our intelligence agencies. It's not like they're underpaid. In private industry, you get sacked for incompetance.
The last federal private/public salary comparison, one of the former components of establishing civil service pay, was performed in 1986. Add 17-years of COLA and I'd make an educated guess that a federal janitor has a pretty decent job compared to sweeping up at Wally World. CIA starts at $32-56k without an advanced degree. And all those bennies. As a comparison, a neighbor's daughter, a very bright woman with a master's in accounting and about half-way through her CPA studies just started at a large CPA firm for $42k, health insurance for herself with deductibles and the joke 401k retirement plan. She expects to work 60-70 hours a week, as is the norm in that industry.
I apologize for seemingly getting off-topic, but it seems relelvant when discussing the inadequacies of our intelligence agencies. It's not like they're underpaid. In private industry, you get sacked for incompetance.
Are you as knowledgeable about all these Fortune 500 companies that have numerous VP's that have outrageous incomes and basically do nothing for there salary. Those folks are really a piece of work. Do not mean to offend you if you are a VP.
Last edited by IB Tim; Jan 31, 2004 at 03:30 PM.
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Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Nevada
Originally posted by Tim Lamkin
Are you as knowledgeable about all these Fortune 500 companies that have numerous VP's that have outrageous incomes and basically do nothing for there salary. Those folks are really a piece of work. Do not mean to offend you if you are a VP.
Are you as knowledgeable about all these Fortune 500 companies that have numerous VP's that have outrageous incomes and basically do nothing for there salary. Those folks are really a piece of work. Do not mean to offend you if you are a VP.
Most senior corporate officers I've known are very talented and that's the reason they command those salaries. In private sector senior management if you don't perform above the norm at a constant, high level, you're out. No appeals, no committee evaluation, no union, no downgrades, no lawsuits, no crying. Hit the road Jack.
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I agree with George re the senior exects. I've never been that high on the food chain at the Corps I've worked for, but I've been close enough to observe just what they do. We used to joke that VP's had their names penciled on their business cards so that they could be erased and reused. I have never known a successful 5-day/40-hour week vice president (and I've known a few). From what I've observed, decision makers that make the wrong decisions are ex decision makers that do not enjoy the luxury of finger pointing.
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From: 3rd Rock
Originally posted by georgedavila
I've been employed as a corporate officer for two Fortune 500 companies, known and know lots of VPs at various management levels, CFOs, CEOs and active board members. Most do plenty for their salaries, are at work before security opens civil service buildings and long after they empty out. I also knew good public servants that put in those kind of hours and devotion to their professions, including a couple of family members, but that was 30-years ago, before the 37-hour workweek, accumulative vacation, holidays and sick leave based on only who knows what and little fear of being dismissed if P&P is followed to the letter. No disrespect meant if you're a civil service employee.
Most senior corporate officers I've known are very talented and that's the reason they command those salaries. In private sector senior management if you don't perform above the norm at a constant, high level, you're out. No appeals, no committee evaluation, no union, no downgrades, no lawsuits, no crying. Hit the road Jack.
I've been employed as a corporate officer for two Fortune 500 companies, known and know lots of VPs at various management levels, CFOs, CEOs and active board members. Most do plenty for their salaries, are at work before security opens civil service buildings and long after they empty out. I also knew good public servants that put in those kind of hours and devotion to their professions, including a couple of family members, but that was 30-years ago, before the 37-hour workweek, accumulative vacation, holidays and sick leave based on only who knows what and little fear of being dismissed if P&P is followed to the letter. No disrespect meant if you're a civil service employee.
Most senior corporate officers I've known are very talented and that's the reason they command those salaries. In private sector senior management if you don't perform above the norm at a constant, high level, you're out. No appeals, no committee evaluation, no union, no downgrades, no lawsuits, no crying. Hit the road Jack.
Tuff to disrespect someone you know absolutely nothing about.
Last edited by IB Tim; Feb 1, 2004 at 09:15 AM.
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