Does Pres. Bush's proposal to make illegal imagrants legal workers make you as mad as it does me?

I'm so mad about this I can't barely talk about it. Lets allow illegal workers come here and drive down wages. Lets make wages go down for every person in this country.

I've heard the arguments that Americans don't want these low end jobs. If the gas station can make me pay 2 bucks for premium can't I demand a higher wage? Isn't this the idea of supply and demand?

Personally I think we should give every illegal person here a free ride back to where ever they came from via a giant slingshot. I don't see why we need to treat them nicely and take care of them. They broke the law, make them pay.

Mexico's president is all for this. And he wants more rights for ILLEGAL Mexicans in this country. You know why? Cause he knows that will mean more money flowing south to his country when the workers send money home. And to unload all the unskilled workers on America. How about he fix his country without using America as a crutch.

Dennis and any other Canadians what do you think about this? Now the Mexicans are one step closer to Canada. Don't get me wrong, I have NO problem with someone coming here LEGALLY. Thats what this country was founded on.

 

Typical election year politics.he's trying to get the mexican vote. I say send them back and make the welfare recipients take these low end jobs instead of government handouts.GW makes a big deal out of being able to talk spanish.why dont he say something we can understand for a change.these illegal workers must be good for the economy.Were going to be paying for this presidents domestic polices for a long time to come.

 

MMM, this is going to be a hot one, I taped the Perot _ Gore debate on NAFTA years ago. I play it every so often to hear Perot say " And yes, you will see jobs sucked out of the USA like a big vacuum" . I have seen all the supporters on here say why NAFTA is good, necessary, so on, and why the Mexicans population is BOOMING, because we white people are too lazy to do manual labor, etc. Ah, a lot of truth being told I would say. But , as I see at my place of employment, the slow subliminal discrimination against the whites, being fired , layed off, and just not hired, and the Mexicans filling the positions, I have a opinion of my own on it...
Am I the only one that has ever wondered why is that most of our manufacturing jobs are going to Mexico, yet looking in my town, it looks like all the Mexicans are coming up here ? I have a thought on that. Yes, we all know about the living, political, econonmical conditions in Mexico being as such, causing the great "movement". But one has to look at this in a bigger scope sometimes. Look around you , most likely you have a nice home, two color tv's, a big Ford truck in the drive. Ever wonder how that come about, that we Americans have the earning potential to have such a better standard of living ?
I think I remember how it happened. Years ago,we as a struggling nation, have our forefathers to thank for it. The same ones that stood up for themselves starting fair labor laws, unions and other legislation to help the little guy. The ones that stood in the cold with a sign, took beatings from "company men" watched their vehicles be destroyed, had their families stand beside them, while they went without food and "nice " things while their employee father, made a "stand for a "cause". The cause being that just because your a worker, doesnt mean you have to live in or work in substandard conditons, and as an American, they fought for the dream.
This is where it sticks in my gizzard , the "movement " or flood is more like it. I see hundreds of Mexicans standing in line monthly at the gas mart, cashing their checks, sending money orders home every Fri. (where does that help our enonomy ?). Most drive vans that will carry 6 -12 people for mass transit. Our local newspaper is full of divorces to where Jesus is getting a divorce from Suzie, just married 6 months, long enough to get legal.
Enuff, my BP is getting up here. Final word, let the people stand up for themselves in their own country, and make it prosper like out great grandfathers did. Hell, ours didnt even have industries to run away from like their doing, because they wont stand up for themselves, our forefathers had to hammer them out from the dirt, then fight the rich to keep them. Yep, were being sold out by corporate greed, and a LOT of that was caused by our own greed. So, now we our going to pay the piper, so to speak. And , I assure you our immigrant forefathers LEARNED the english language, and didnt force the Americans already here, to try to learn their home language by making all products have more "foreign " language instructions on their products/ directions than there is engish printed. nuff said for now, Flame on,

 

Yes, and you are not alone. I'm calling George Nethercutts office tomorrow morning (he's the state rep for my district) to tell them that if he continues to support Bush's proposal that he can no longer count on my vote and that I will no longer make campaign contributions when he's up for reelection. Residents of eastern Wa state 5th district can find out how to contact him by visiting http://www.house.gov/nethercutt/contact/index.html. A buddy of mine was planning to look for an email addy to the whitehouse tonight so that he could express his sentiment. I'll find out in the morning if he succeeded. I encourage all readers that oppose the proposal to contact the appropriate poligicians and express their feelings, in writing or by phone.

On another note, a buddy of mine heard today that if the mexicans were not doing the labor that the average cost of produce would rise by only 10%. This stemmed from the fact that labor is not as big of a production cost as many other things. Myself, I'd be more than happy to pay a paltry 10% more just to have less illegals running around this country.

I had hoped that after 9-11 we would finally do something about our lax border security. Sadly, not much has changed.

 

I am still trying to figure out how you are entitled to a higher wage because gas is $2/gallon? I do not understand how imagrants(?) affect this equation. Who is Ima Grant?

A worker is not entitled to a wage, they earn what the market will bear. If you do not like your wage, quit, work for someone else who will pay you more or better yet, start your own business. If there are no jobs available in your occupation then consider learning a new occupation where jobs are available. Possibly even move. Make lemonaide out of lemons. Change careers, make something for yourself instead of complaining about others making your life harder.

Supply and demand is not you get a higher wage because goods cost more (this would be inflation). It means you pay a higher price for items that are in demand. Immigrants (or Ima Grant) do not affect the price of a gallon of gas. How can a laborer making less money than you make your gas cost more?

Before you flame, I am not in support of President Bush's new plan. But at least make a connection.

 

you lost me on that Ima Grant thing.it's not as simple as quiting your job,or finding a new profession,or even relocating.why should we have to even consider these opitions.our fathers and grandfathers made this country what it is and now they want to let illegal aliens reap the rewards?sorry,but i disagree.what does 2dollar a gallon have to do with it.am i missing something here?

 

I believe our forefathers came from Europe or other parts of the world. That would entail moving. My geatgrandfather moved from Wales. That would be moving. I cannot recall anywhere in the constitution where a person is entitled to a job where they live. PURSUIT of happiness, not happiness comes to you. Opportunity is not handed out, it is sought. For those who do not seek, then they will have to do with what is left over. You do not have to move, maybe change occupations, giving up the comfort of a job that you have but are not pleased with to take a chace on a POSSIBLE better future.

I was also trying to figure out what imagrants (Ima Grant) had to do with the cost of a gallon of gas.

 

IMO as far as the southwest goes Spanish speaking people have already contributed to the "greatness" of this country. If you can't compete with these recent arrivals in the open market you need to go back to school or do something to raise your own value in the market place. Who ever said you were guaranteed a good life by working with your hands?

IMO it's a shame that Americans do not appreciate how lucky we are to have such people as neighbors. Most are honest, humble and hard working.
I think many of us should examine the true nature of our discomfort with Latin Americans.

For the record I am something like 1/8 Mexican.

 

While I'm not sure where to stand on this issue, I can see both sides of the isle.

I would be in favor of a plan that allowed a small percentage of workers to enter LEGALLY, as long as the same percentage of ILLEGALS got the boot.

Maybe a charge could be put on the legally entered wages, to help pay for the deportation of the illegals.

 

I'm not sure what the isolationists are complaining about. It seems to me that if unskilled workers want to come here, I can only benefit. The jobs that they will fill are menial ones - my house will be cleaned cheaper, my crops picked cheaper, my lawn mowed cheaper, etc.

Illegal immigrants are already here. Making them legal will change nothing, except to force them to contribute in the form of payroll taxes.

 

Many are paying taxes now with no way to file a return and get a refund.
Phony SSN's you know.

 

Slowsix / Sinjin / HerbertKornfeld,

I agree with you 100%, not because of me being a mexican myself (I live on the mexican side of the border anyway) but because what you just said is really true...

Most of the jobs taken by illegal immigrants are the ones that most americans won't accept, they would work long hours with no right to paid overtime nor to get their taxes refund, they also help the economy move by buying stuff over there even though they send back money to their home country.

Besides, my understanding is that Mr. Bush's proposal implies that the job positions filled by illegal immigrants should have been offered to and rejected by an american citizen in the first place.

 

Why should we reap our fathers and grandfathers rewards. THEY made something of their lives, we did not. THEY took chances and had rewards. I have no interest in sitting and letting my fathers work reward me. I am making my own way and giving BACK to the community. This is what makes this country great.

The illegals should not benefit from the work of legal aliens and citizens (health care, social security disability benefits etc.) and this is a huge problem. But do not assume all are illegal. My family were legal aliens at one time too. They came to the US to make a better life, which they did. I was just lucky enough to be born here.

The front side of illegals is that items are cheaper due to lower costs, in theory, i.e. lower cost of lettuce beacuse cheaper to produce. The back side is that a family coming into the US has been granted by the courts healthcare, disability etc and the cost to monitor and attempt to discourage illegals goes up so the actual cost is much higher in services paid by the citizens. Also many illegals are paid without taxes being taken out (under the table) therefore they are not even contributing to their costs.

The issue of $2/gallon and imagrants (Ima Grants) has absolutely nothing to do with immigrants. MY point was do not blame immigrants (legal or illegal) with the price of oil. Make a reasonable point that has merit.

 

this thread is getting confusing.i thought i was responding to illegal immigration here.any legal immigration if fine with me.as a matter of fact my father came here back in the 30's.we seem to be jumping from illegal to legal.big difference.

 

I think the real big issue is not that their foreigners, but that they are illegal foreigners. I'm American by birth, but Mexican by blood. My parents came from Mexico legally 40 years ago on sponsorships. I remember hearing stories of how hard they worked to get what they have, sometimes working multiple jobs at a time. They provided everything us kids ever wanted, while putting us through private schools right through highschool. And as soon as they were able to, they became US citizens.
It just is not right that illegals will be able to benefit from our country's resources.