Act of Deregulation! No More DPF's
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,377
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From: SE Michigan
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 753
Likes: 494
From: NE Ohio
The post I was responding too explicitly stated that SCOTUS deemed a previous EO as law, and that is simply impossible. They could have upheld a given EO, but doing so does not make it law. Laws and executive orders and very different things, with laws always winning in the hierarchy.
Last edited by Tsax6010; Feb 14, 2026 at 02:50 PM.
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 3,866
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Interestingly Detroit Diesel implemented DEF in late 2009 with their DD series engines. In 2010 DEF became mandatory. This happened after 8 years of the Bush administration. Obama had nothing to do with this implementation. The DD series engines cranked out more horsepower, more torque, and got better MPGs than the previous 60 series engines. In fact, way better than any previous rendition of any diesel engine. The research, design, engineering and manufacturing teams of Detroit Diesel did not accomplished this in just a year and a half. DD knew it was coming a full decade ahead of time and they got on top of it. Caterpillar decided to get out of the transport business and concentrated on off road heavy equipment. International, as usual, was way behind on the tech curve. Mack/Volvo got caught up in the mid teens. What sucks is that the small diesel engine builders were content to just slap all the emission controls on old designs, resulting in poorer fuel economy, unreliability, and a whole sector of pickup truck drivers looking for someone to blame. If Detroit Diesel/John Deere/Penske can redesign an engine which meets emission standards, gets better MPGs, has bigger torque/HP numbers, and has a quarter million mile warranty then what is wrong with Ford/International, Chevy Duramax and Dodge/Cummins that they didn’t get it done? Laziness. How do I know all this? Retired truck driver with decades of driving, studying the industry, and had a seat at the table when our Fortune 500 company was specing out and ordering power units. Today, I’m retired and travel full time in my 350 6.8 gasser.
Go enjoy your golden years traveling with your gasser and don't burden yourself with current diesel issues and how George W Bush is in anyway germane to what is going on today.
Last edited by twobelugas; Feb 14, 2026 at 03:38 PM.
More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2025
Posts: 558
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The only thing about OTR engines that makes them easier to build to code, is the higher price point available to them. Theyre built far better than consumer grade junk.
But under the current EPA standards, its impossible to build a GOOD diesel engine in big truck or little truck. Thats why CAT got out of truck engines. Thats also why we prefer gas engines, unless the truck is so narly, all the time, that only the diesel will do. Our attrociously heavy f550 crane trucks, are coming with 7.3's now. (No idea on axle ratio, id guess 4.88 or 4.56) And techs are happy with them.
Bad EPA engine regulations, have increased the cost of every single thing we buy.
But under the current EPA standards, its impossible to build a GOOD diesel engine in big truck or little truck. Thats why CAT got out of truck engines. Thats also why we prefer gas engines, unless the truck is so narly, all the time, that only the diesel will do. Our attrociously heavy f550 crane trucks, are coming with 7.3's now. (No idea on axle ratio, id guess 4.88 or 4.56) And techs are happy with them.
Bad EPA engine regulations, have increased the cost of every single thing we buy.
Last edited by Midwest87; Feb 15, 2026 at 05:03 AM.
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2021
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Class 3 and under also compete in the idiot horsepower and torque rating race despite EPA restrictions. Commercial truck motor makers compete, sure, but the buyers generally have more sense than the keyboard commando 3/4 and 1 ton buyers 80%-90% of whom just want bragging rights. I know quite a few 3/4 to 1 ton diesels private owners near me and none of them tow over 8k and even then they tow <10% of the miles. I would be rather interested in buying a detuned 1 ton PSD if they offered it in F350 pickups.
Last edited by twobelugas; Feb 15, 2026 at 07:14 PM.
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 2,040
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OTR trucks generally don't have to worry about their owners cranking up the motor just to drive it a few miles to the store/office/school/etc, shut down, then start again, drive a few miles back. shut down again, day in and day out.
Class 3 and under also compete in the idiot horsepower and torque rating race despite EPA restrictions. Commercial truck motor makers compete, sure, but the buyers generally have more sense than the keyboard commando 3/4 and 1 ton buyers 80%-90% of whom just want bragging rights. I know quite a few 3/4 to 1 ton diesels private owners near me and none of them tow over 8k and even then they tow <10% of the miles. I would be rather interested in buying a detuned 1 ton PSD if they offered it in F350 pickups.
Class 3 and under also compete in the idiot horsepower and torque rating race despite EPA restrictions. Commercial truck motor makers compete, sure, but the buyers generally have more sense than the keyboard commando 3/4 and 1 ton buyers 80%-90% of whom just want bragging rights. I know quite a few 3/4 to 1 ton diesels private owners near me and none of them tow over 8k and even then they tow <10% of the miles. I would be rather interested in buying a detuned 1 ton PSD if they offered it in F350 pickups.
So worried about another man and his truck. Weirdo.
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2021
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Then again, I buy the right tool for the right job, which, again, I know, is extremely weird to many. Strange even.
Last edited by twobelugas; Feb 15, 2026 at 09:29 PM.
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 2,040
Likes: 1,331
If wanting to see consumer diesel motors built more for durability and less for marketing numbers makes me a weirdo, well, what can I say, I am super, duper, mega weird. LOL.
Then again, I buy the right tool for the right job, which, again, I know, is extremely weird to many. Strange even.
Then again, I buy the right tool for the right job, which, again, I know, is extremely weird to many. Strange even.
The emissions stuff you can thank the government for, not Ford.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,672
Likes: 894
From: Milford, MI
Having been in the repair business for lighter duty diesels (mostly Mercedes cars and vans) and seen the progression from mechanical injection, no emissions stuff to today, I think we hit a point of diminishing returns after DPFs. I personally don't want my stinky 7.3 diesel back, but I'm not losing any sleep over those that have parts fall off their trucks either.
C.A.F.E. regs have been costing consumers the most recently.... I'm happy to see that go away and hopefully sticking. I'd like to see traditional V6 and V8s come back in place of the turbo 4s and 6s that don't do any better far as consumption goes in the real world.
My thoughts are kill C.A.F.E., wind the emissions regs back to 2008ish. Focus developing an EV charge network alongside practical battery tech (we're a looong ways away yet). After a vehicle is 10 years/150k or so then lift any penalties to keep vehicles on the road if the DPF is shot or whatnot so secondhand owners who can't afford these repairs aren't disproportionally affected.
C.A.F.E. regs have been costing consumers the most recently.... I'm happy to see that go away and hopefully sticking. I'd like to see traditional V6 and V8s come back in place of the turbo 4s and 6s that don't do any better far as consumption goes in the real world.
My thoughts are kill C.A.F.E., wind the emissions regs back to 2008ish. Focus developing an EV charge network alongside practical battery tech (we're a looong ways away yet). After a vehicle is 10 years/150k or so then lift any penalties to keep vehicles on the road if the DPF is shot or whatnot so secondhand owners who can't afford these repairs aren't disproportionally affected.
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 3,866
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If they weren't chasing "best in class" numbers they can tune for less emissions and DEF usage, less fuel usage, higher possibility of manual options, build more headroom into critical components, among another way things can be done differently if HP/TQ bragging rights were not driving development budgets and resources.
Again, I understand for many diesel buyers. what I seek is unbelievably weird. But I also think it's weird to use PSD to commute solo. Different strokes, and all that.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 112
Likes: 106
I went out of the diesel world when the traps and def hit. My last diesel was an 06 Cummins 6 speed manual, great truck until it disappeared from rust. Even back in 06, the diesel was overkill for my loads <10k. But it got 18mpg unloaded and the maintenance wasn’t too bad.
Now I’m running the 7.3 gasser and it’s been a great truck. If we’re truth telling, 80% of the private diesel buyers will never run loads heavy enough to need the 6.7. I see a lot of 6.7s running around unloaded at least they don’t soot me out when I’m on the bike. I won’t have one so I’m kind of happy they saddled them with EPA junk, Gore juice and exorbitant prices.
Need v want. I need to know the time, look at the pocket PC I carry around, but, but, but, I want to buy a Rolex.
Really I don’t care if you tune your 6.7 450 to the moon, then carry “your maximum” load of your iPhone. Not my business or my coin. If you want to get pissed about another’s waste, walk outside and look up, eventually a jet will pass overhead maybe even private.
Now I’m running the 7.3 gasser and it’s been a great truck. If we’re truth telling, 80% of the private diesel buyers will never run loads heavy enough to need the 6.7. I see a lot of 6.7s running around unloaded at least they don’t soot me out when I’m on the bike. I won’t have one so I’m kind of happy they saddled them with EPA junk, Gore juice and exorbitant prices.
Need v want. I need to know the time, look at the pocket PC I carry around, but, but, but, I want to buy a Rolex.
Really I don’t care if you tune your 6.7 450 to the moon, then carry “your maximum” load of your iPhone. Not my business or my coin. If you want to get pissed about another’s waste, walk outside and look up, eventually a jet will pass overhead maybe even private.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 871
Likes: 1,735
From: SE PA
Its not just heavy loads that diesels are good for, efficiency is another. I only tow 7000 and yes a 7.3 would do just fine, but I prefer the extra 130 miles per tank of extra range the diesel gives me, 13 mpg vs 9 mpg makes quite a difference when you travel thousands of miles towing.
5th Wheeling
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 35
Likes: 9
From: Austin, TX
I want access to the EPA exempt tunes from ford. The government can order ambulance packages or military packages without DEF so Ford must have factory tunes for it... and I would assume aftermarket service companies should have access to that tune. I want to delete my truck, but i have a factory warranty. With the new non enforcement provisions, let me delete my truck and then take it to the dealership for an "EPA exempt tune." Since ford is doing it, let me negate their argument that my tune nullifies warranty coverage.
More Turbo
Joined: Mar 2024
Posts: 703
Likes: 288
From: SE Vermont, South Jersey
Its not just heavy loads that diesels are good for, efficiency is another. I only tow 7000 and yes a 7.3 would do just fine, but I prefer the extra 130 miles per tank of extra range the diesel gives me, 13 mpg vs 9 mpg makes quite a difference when you travel thousands of miles towing.
Current national average of fuel costs as of 1/26/26:
Gasoline is 2.853 = $0.317/mile @ 9 MPG
Diesel is 3.624 = .$0.279/mile @ 13 MPG
No idea what the cost of DEF is, or how long it last, let's just leave it totally out of the equation.
Not to mention that the same truck with a diesel will have a substantially lower GVWR because of the heavier engine.
*Granted, some will do so. But even at 50,000 miles per year that's 5 years. AND if you financed any part of the purchase, you will also have paid more interest because of that $10k premium in price. At a modest 5% interest over 5 years, that extra $10k will cost you an extra $1300 or so in interest, which will take another 35,000 miles to catch up, or close to 300,000 total.
Bottom line, you have to drive a LOT of miles to make a diesel strictly cost effective. You really can only justify a diesel if you need the towing capacity. OTOH, you don't HAVE to justify anything to me. It's your money.
