P0012:00 ec-a code at the moment but have had other cam over or under codes for both banks intake cams.

Truck is a 2016 F150 5.0. 126,xxx miles. Neighbors truck. I got it in for an oil change, plugs, and see why it was running bad. It was bought recently from a used dealer with 120k ish miles. Drove fine for a while. Transmission lines rusted apart and I changed those but otherwise no problem. No clue on history before that 120k miles.

Truck stumbles when idling. Sometimes completly dies. Actual intake cam timing values jump constantly from -20 to +40s. Sometimes hitting +50 degrees at idle. Exhaust cam timing stays pretty well -1 to +3 or so degrees. Duty cycle for all 4 cams never really goes above 65-70%. Oil pressure is normal on my scan tool. Issues started all of a sudden. Runs decent when not idling but even driving the actual intake cam values for both banks jumps around pretty wildly. Truck is a 6 speed 2016 and has a lot less power than any of mine but mine are 21+ and 10 speed. I think it seems a little down on power but I have mustang and newer trucks as my only real comparison. It pulls smooth and rpms stay stable when pulling along easy.


Every shop says "cam phasers" and it may well be but is there any REAL way to actually diagnose them for sure. The cams are quiet even on 0 degree cold starts. Oil is new mobil 1. Motorcraft filter. No clue what the oil i took out was, STP filter. Looking in the oil fill hole the cam area isn't the cleanest I've ever seen but no real sludge build up. Both banks intake cams are pretty close to the same timing which makes me wonder about the phaser diagnosis. Seems to me one would fail or possible all. But both intake have issues and both exhaust are fine?

Thanks for taking the time to read.

 

Nobody wants to take a stab at it?

 

new to this 5.0l Ford being a form GM truck owner but I'm taking every opportunity to learn from what others are dealing with.

Soooo check this thread out.

https://www.f150forum.com/f118/2019-...r-code-470437/

 

Ive seen that one. And I always suspect the cam solenoids. I've changed them before.

Edit.... ive changed them before on other trucks. Not this one.

BUT on this one both of the intake cams change constantly like id expect them to do. And both intake cams stay within a degree or two of each other. They jump all over from +20 to -50 degrees and they do so together. Makes me question if the truck is actually telling the solenoids to do what they are doing.

The exhaust cam solenoid are doing what they should.

Just really odd for the 2 exhaust to be normal and the two intake cams swinging so wildly. And doing so in sync.

 

have u checked the wiring? I once had a 4wd code that was intermittently thrown. I traced it down to the front diff acuator motor. One of the wires was intermittently open due to a stress bend directly at the connector.

 

ive looked and didn't see anything. And with both of them moving the cams in sync I cant see how it would be either one side. Could be some pcm issue. I can watch all 4 cams live data. At no point do they lose signal or quit moving.

 

i will assume when u looked at the wiring you used a DVM and did stsndard back probing to check for opens/shorts/correct voltage/signals.

did u do the hk11 and hk12 test?

 

I didn't do the tests yet. Or the debree clearing. With then moving freely and together, and the exhaust cams being normal, it doesn't seem to me like any other truck or Mustang that had the normal cam solenoid issue.

The test will tell me it's getting signal and moving free but I already know that it is, by watching the live data.

 

Was the cam solenoids. Passed all tests though.

Reason they didn't act like the typical failed cam solenoids is that they were new. Im guessing the truck was an auction truck that wouldn't run (I know the used dealer, good guy) and they threw aftermarket solenoids on it and sold it. Ran fine for maybe 3k miles, then was brought to me with the issue.

All 4 solenoids were aftermarket. Only the intake cams showed the symptoms. The exhaust cams worked as they should. Intake cams would swing from -50 degrees to +50 degrees even idling.

 

nice. This will probably help someone someday.

 

Good diagnostic work.

That wide a swing, I'm surprised it didn't cause some valve damage.

 

I wasnt happy with the diagnostic work. Honestly I felt 90% sure it was the solenoids but 10% parts cannon. I used to fuss about people and throwing parts but I find myself having to do it more than I like. Not uneducated parts cannon. Lol. But that f150 I wasnt 100% on.


The intended range is -49 to +49 according to my launch. It doesn't turn red until 50. Lol

But I thought the same thing. 100 degrees total. Sounds like a lot.