Long time, guys. I've been working on my house and not messing with my trucks for awhile. Took off this morning for the dump with a trailer full of construction debris. Truck wasn't empty but wouldn't make the round trip, so I stopped in a local station and pumped about 12g in the tank. Made it about 5 miles and it started shaking a little bit, then losing power with no change by giving it more pedal. Finally sputtered to a stop about 50 yards from the dump, and a Good Samaritan pulled me to a truck stop across the highway. Got lucky with that part, being so close to the truck stop, and finding help.

I'm thinking I got bad fuel from that neighborhood station. Anything special I have to do? The plan is to drain as much as I can from the tank, drain the fuel pump and water separator, then add new fuel. Should I change the filters, or can I just rinse them in new fuel?

 

It might not be bad fuel. What we’ve been seeing lately is the plastic pick up foot in the tank deteriorating, breaking into parts and clogging the inlet fuel line. You may want to check the fuel pressure first, or if the secondary fuel filter is filling with fuel. It may take about five seconds, so it ends up being a two-person job unless you want fuel dumping all over the top of your engine.

 

Dang, you may be right. That would be a pain to fix in the truck stop, and with that full trailer attached, hard to get home. They're charging me to park there.

Here's what I saw - just went, drained the tank and replaced the filters. When I pulled the bottom filter out, fuel spilled like it usually does. When I pulled the top one, the bowl was empty. While I was up there, I cranked it at the battery a couple of times and nothing. But, I hadn't primed it, so I jumped in the cab and turned the key - the bowl was splashing over before I got up front. So, I put the new filter in and it started up. (May have started up before that, I didn't try.)

Ran rough, which I thought could be normal air in the lines, so I let it idle while I cleaned up my mess. Still idling rough, but I gave it some pedal and it wound up and held steady at 2000rpm, but still kinda rough. Drove it around the parking lot and it never smoothed out. Stopped and wound it up again, and it went back up to 2000, but like originally, it slowly lost RPM even as I tried to give it more pedal, until finally slower and slower and sputtered out. Giving it pedal did nothing. Took the top filter out and the bowl was dry.

Got it to sputter start again after a long crank and got it into a parking spot.

I don't have my OBDII adapter, arrgh, but there's no CELs showing.

Confused why the top bowl would have filled up when priming, but empty after running a few minutes. I'm assuming fuel pump. Does it sound like it can be the broken foot?

 

it might be. You could use a 5 gallon can of diesel and get a 3/8 and 5/16 hose and connect that to the tank side of the HFCM which would get you to where you need to go as well as tell if the tank is the problem. I have a video on YouTube that would show the issue and how to deal with the tank, but for whatever reason on my cellphone out in the farm, I can’t give you a link to it. But it’s under my channel for TooManyToys.

 

had to edit the last post, dang phone changed my words.

Just went and bought a pump before the dealership closed. (Why do I always break down on Saturday afternoons?) $600???? He said it was the "updated" pump that didn't have the pigtail. If I needed the pigtail, it was $300 more. O.o

I replaced this pump a few years ago and don't remember any pigtail.

On the positive side, while it's idling/running rough, I don't think it's fried injectors, not the way it loses RPM and dies. And there's no smoke. On the negative side, if it's that plastic foot, I bet it'll be a pain to replace on this flat bed. The parts guy said a piece of the sending unit, prolly that foot, can also fail such that if the tank gets down to 1/4 the truck will die. It only sucks above 1/4 tank. I don't think that's the issue because it had more than a 1/4 tank when it first failed. After draining/replacing filters, I only put about 6 gals in.

I'd love to figure out that it's something easy, so I could return the $600 pump, but I doubt it. I guess the proper next step is to test fuel pressure, but all my car tech/tools are buried and disorganized in my garage since I've been doing all these remodeling projects. Not sure where it is. Still, It seems pretty clear than I'm not getting enough fuel pressure. Unless there's an easy way to diagnose that plastic foot, I should prolly replace the pump and see what happens.

 

awesome, Jack. Thanks so much. I was actually wondering if something like that could work. I'm guessing I could just use the 100-gallon aux tank instead of a bucket/whatever. This solves my biggest problem - how to get my rig across the highway to the landfill and unload that trailer, then back home where I can spend the time to fix the problem. If this doesn't fix it right off, then it's almost surely my fuel pump.

Hope you're doing well. Will you be selling trees this Christmas?

 

I will be,

Use the aux tank.

If the de-icing valve pops out, then you have the 1/4 tank issue. However, the foot can disintegrate, blocking the remaining intake tube, and as others have found out, pieces in the lines themselves can cause the same issue after cleaning the tank.

 

OK, I'm headed to the truck stop this morning to rig up an alternative fuel source to confirm bad HFCM or tank/supply line issues. I couldn't tell from Jack's video whether the supply and return lines are the same size? When I drained the fuel yesterday, I didn't see any debris come out of the tank, so hoping that's not my problem. Hate to say I'd rather it be this $600 fuel pump, but dropping the tank looks like a PITA, and the sending unit isn't much cheaper, if they're even still available (or is it just the foot that's hard to find - it can be replaced separately)?

What are the chances I've burned up injectors? Again, I drove it pulling load for a couple of miles as it was losing power, then sputtering dead. And, I rev-ed it in the parking lot for a minute or two after replacing the filters. It was missing/running rough, but holding steady before repeating the sputter dead cycle. I ever saw smoke, Also, when I drained the fuel yesterday, I didn't see any debris come out of the tank to still bypass the sending unit?

 

3/8” supply line; 5/16” return.

Foot replaceable; sensor itself replaceable. It's all in the video.

Possibly not a tank problem, but this is the best backyard test.

 

Oops, my bad. You already told me the hose sizes. Well, my luck. Wore my hearing aids today so I could hear the pump. Turn the key, and the pump runs for about 5 seconds and stops. I figure that's a high likelihood of pump failure, so instead of doing the backyard tank test fist, I just go ahead and swap in the new pump. Turn the key and the same thing - runs about 5 seconds and goes silent. Dang! Run the truck and it does the same thing, seemingly better at first, but sputtering in a couple of minutes.

So, I go ahead and rig up the alternate fuel source. When I turn the key, it bubbles in the bucket for much longer than 5 seconds, like I'd think it normally would, although I'm not close enough to hear whether the pump is making noise. I assume it's working normal, maybe it's always been just fine. Start the engine, and the same thing - runs OK for a few minutes, then starts sputtering.

So, I guess that leaves the relay. Where is that again - in the engine compartment or behind the fuse panel under the dash? I'm thinking I'll hit the Pick-U-Part and pull one from a wrecked truck. How hard is it to get out?

 

The relay is integral to the CJB, non-replaceable. The CJB, or fuse panel, is configured differently depending on the vehicle options.

Again, in the video, I show a way to power the relay at the inertia switch. Normally the pump runs for about 20 seconds before the PCM times it out if the engine is not running.

 

Thanks so much. I would have never diagnosed this without you (assuming I have).

Yep, this one runs no more than 5 seconds. I remember that part of the vid, where you plug into the power port with a wire to the inertia switch. Can that be an ugly permanent solution for this rarely used truck? It's an XL, no power windows, door locks, seats, mirrors, etc. Does have the integrated trailer brake, but it's messed up - beeps and randomly throws the "check trailer" message on my dash pretty frequently.

I just need it to run. I only use it around town, mostly to Home Depot and back and to the dump. But, how would you fix it if it were yours?

 

You don’t know yet that the relay is the problem.

 

OK, so the inertia switch set up in the vid is the way to test whether the relay is bad? Sorry, I skimmed that part as I was looking for the alternate fuel discussion. By powering the relay through that inertia switch wire, I'm looking to see if the pump works properly? I know I'd really need to be testing fuel pressure, but all my Powerstroke tools are buried in my garage behind home remodeling stuff. I'd kinda be hoping the truck just runs properly.

I know, I do this all wrong. I'm a Bonehead. Does the symptoms I describe even sound like what a bad relay would do - the way it kinda works for a few minutes then sputters down. Do relays work and then not work? Can you think of anything else, just a random guess? Am I even chasing the right problem - fuel starvation - or could those symptoms still be something else? Just the way it slowly loses power until the pedal quits having any effect at all seemed like a fuel issue to me.

 

Fuel pressure would be the ideal check. The fuel pump relay works, or it doesn't. The fuel supply is open, or it isn't.

Runs then shuts down with no fuel in the secondary filter. This could be an indication of an injector leaking combustion pressure into the fuel rail, displacing fuel with combustion gas. But many other issues could be the problem; no way to know without data.