Pro on the SPE, its well machined, all the fittings are top of the line, and installation is straight forward.

Con on the SPE, the return line filter is A: A PITA to install and B: does not filter as well.

Pro on the S&S, it has a much better filter on the return side

Con on the S&S, it looks cobbled together on a garage work bench. The fitting for the flow controller looks weak, like too much vibration can fracture it. The lines on older kits have been known to blow off the T fitting, but looks like S&S has put a much better T fitting on the line set.

On my 2019 I installed the SPE and the S&S return filter. It costs more to use SPE. but it also looks better. Either kit will get the job done, some people like looks, others more who cares what it looks like as long as it works, however if I had to do it again, I would go S&S to save money.

 

Just curious about the good chance comment, not sure if it’s accurate but another thread here cited a 5 to 7% chance of a CP4 failure over its life. But that also includes neglect and every scenario.

Plus the replacement has been out for what years and in the 1000’s at best versus millions with a longer period of real world miles. Are we sure if the replacement was in the same amount of trucks there would be problems as well after millions of miles?

Hopefully not, but from an odds standpoint, spending $400 if it can prevent the main costs of a failure and then if there is a failure replace the pump and still have the added protection? I’m trying to decide on the DPK, I like the hard lines of the SPE and pressure alert if it doesn’t introduce other issues. Also, SPE states they use the 20micron screen for a reason over smaller filters. (Whether correct, not sure.)

 

Reading threads, the openings on injectors is 6 microns, so would the 9 micron or 20 micron make much of a difference on the return line?

Also, was going to start a thread just like this, but found this one. Comments are a couple months old, are the SPE comments on the current kit with the fuel pressure sensor?

 

S&S intentionally damaged the CP4s of two gen trucks, one of my gen truck and the other of the 6R140 equipped truck, 17 to 19, and then drove them with the Donaldson filter to show that their system, and that filter, will protect the fuel system in case of catastrophic failure of the CP4. They pulled out one of the injectors on both trucks and tested them for performance. All was AOKay. IMO, that's putting your money where your mouth is. They have videos on YouTube on this.

 

I’m trying to learn, and to me I like a filter like they have, but the point made I think by SPE on the failure like I think you’re talking about, the pieces are large. They mention something about heat soaking and issues going below 20 microns they did for a reason.

They all are trying to make money, I need to go find the video and see if they documented driving it to failure and the drained the tank to see the size of metal in the tank and the size of metal filter etc. I just like the hard lines over the hoses of the S&S. Made a combination of both. I’ll check out the test. Thanks

SPE actually answers the question on their latest YouTube video when this was asked. Their response. Not sure if it’s accurate or just back and forth they seem to have for sales. I haven’t decided yet, trying to sort through what’s marketing and what works and best quality components.

“There are many issues with a low micron filter an the return side. We did a lot of testing Without going into extreme detail. Basically the filter becomes an added restriction on the side of the system that is already heat soaked when returning to the tank. Our testing of many different micron screen found minimal amount of restriction with 20 micron in a manor that wouldn't change the functionality of the factory system. This was proven when our competitor had a clear bottom filter that was melting on trucks that pushed them in to a steel filter and aluminum mounting head. Hence the extra heat build up. a lower micron steel filter band aids the issue. More heat makes fuel cooler / system work harder as well. Once again we only make it a safe guard that doesn't change the functionality of the vehicles other systems. Its easy to over engineer but doesn't always make it the best way to do it. Great question”

 

Okay so i have a one of those "clear bottom filters" and it hasn't melted...

Also, while it could happen, the reason that S&S went to the spin on filter was that Parker could not keep up with the demand for the S&S edition of their SNAPP filter, black housing with no drain which was specifically manufactured for S&S. I remember Luke from S&S addressing it saying that there was a supply issue.

I'm not going to say that it didn't happen or can't happen, the SNAPP filter problem but have not heard of that before but will do a deeper dive, but I'll take the guys who put their money where their mouth is and ran their trucks with damaged CP4s to not only show that you can still drive the truck with a damaged CP4 to either get it home or to a shop and last but not least, their product works as advertised as it protects the fuel rails, lines and injectors.

I did buy the Gen 2.1 upgrade kit for half off when it came out in case I had problems with getting more SNAPP replacement filters, which was a problem at one point. I'll look more into this.

But in all honesty, it appears SPEs approach that the big fuel filter will cause the fuel to be "heat soaked" is a stretch, IMO, when the fuel is under 30k plus of pressure and being returned on top of a hot 6.7 in a hot engine bay. YMMV...

 

I think I’m with you on the heat soak but I’m not qualified or knowledgeable enough to give a take on it. But I kind of wonder if the same thing is going on from both sides, their take appears to be, a fair is going to be large pieces, you can see, they give you a fuel pressure alert in that situation.

I’m asking if the injector whole size is 6 microns, a 9 micron filter doesn’t ultimately protect this from happening either. Thus who’s right on the failure, are the pieces large enough to where 20 microns are going to be more than enough and the 9 micron angle is along the lines of the SPE heat soak comments?

But past that, the S&S looks like somebody ordering some rubber hose, fittings off amazon and putting in a package.

The SPE seems more OE with the hard lines, sight glass with sensor.

So far, again if the S&S had the hard lines and filter what I would purchase. If the SPE had a filter for debris closer to the 6 micron size, I think I would go with it. Good thing looks like each only sell there return line filter option so maybe there is a way to use what we like about both.

Thanks for the conversation. I’m going to find and watch those videos on the simulated failures.

 

I can imagine the 2 micron return filter being eventually restricted....to me ...it does the same thing that an oil by pass does ....so sure...depending on fuel supply...2 to 9 micron fuel gunk will eventually clog it. I dont consider the oem engine bay filter a filter any more since they have bypass valves and you will never know when its in by pass. and it doesnt have to be cold for it to go into by pass...regular fuel bio mass from the new diesel bio blends can clog it. I can order the 2 micron filters as long as im not in a hurry...so I keep an extra new on hand. they should put a red by pass indicator on the new oem filter.....and I think they eventually will after they get thru the new fuel injector failure wave they are about to create.


at the end of the day.....get what ever you are comfortable with. good luck on trying to get anyone from spe to respond to you.

 

Thanks, still researching. Curious, why not a 5 or 4 micron if the theory of some, filtering it out < 6 microns, “shouldn’t” result in debris that would clog injectors. That’s where I’m right now, if neither are filtering below 6 microns, is their much difference between a 20 & 9 micron filter?

When these pumps fail we are talking about metal fragmenting.

• 25 microns: Sand and larger particles
• 10 microns: Fine sand and silt
• 5 microns: Mold spores and large bacteria
• 1 micron: Fine bacteria and protozoa
• 0.5 microns: Most bacteria and smaller particulates

Thanks for the conversation. Good call on the support, going to try and call communicate a couple of different times. Watching one of the SPE videos, sounds like they are tired of answering questions about other products but that’s the business they are in. Appreciate the input.

Update: Searching through YouTube videos found comments from S&SFueled.

“Great question. We failed a CP4 on our test bench to get a debris sample for analysis. Particles found ranged from 0.675 micron up to 859 micron, with the average particle size being 20.3 micron. The Donaldson return filter we use has an official rating of 9 micron at 99% efficiency, yet further testing shows that actual efficiency rating for 9 micron is 99.575%, for 7 micron is 99%, and for 4 micron is 94.7%. Per the particle testing, 23.8% of the total volume of debris was under 8.68 micron, 20.28% was under 7.64 micron, and 3.12% was under 4.33 micron. This is a long answer to your question, but we want to present the exact data. In summary, 96.88% of the CP4 debris is 4.33 micron or larger, and our return filter is 94.7% efficient at catching the 4 micron particles and 99.575% efficient at catching the 9 micron + particles.”

 

they were tired of talking to customers from the very beginning.
I bought the spe kit and after seeing a video about reduced fuel pressure post spe install and spe’s counter video in which they demonstrated no loss (using +55% cp4 pump), I had a few questions and got no emails or calls back. Shelved the spe kit ( which has been sitting on the shelf for a few years) and bought the s&s kit. S&s always responds to questions and are never annoyed about customer enthusiasm.

the absolute vs nominal rating stuff makes sense.

 

I said it before, that I admire the SPE Gen 2 kit with the hard lines and the way it was engineered but that said, at the end of the day, the job of the bypass filter is to keep metal debris out of the return line and tank if the CP4 fails. Could they have a point about pressure? Sure.

I made an observation when I first installed my disaster kit. That the factory dual pressure/temp sensor that I monitor was reading higher, more pressure, than I have ever seen before by a few points at least. I'll throw this out to the masses. I think it's because the bypass set up in the S&S kit makes flow easier through thge fuel flow circuit there. I believe S&S has a chart that shows the engine will produce more power in the higher RPMs for the 6.7 on their website. That has to mean somethiing. Or I could be wrong.

All I know is that after use and when it closer for me to replace the set of filters, pressure has already dropped some on the read out. I do not see that now with the S&S filter in place. I'm just thinking out loud and I'm no expert in this either. But I would think that in the stock set up with secondary filter only, when it starts to clog up some through it's sevice life, the pressure drops because flow is restricted though that top filter. Like I said, I'm not a fuel engineer or expert but the guys at S&S are. I'm not knocking the SPE folk but if they truly have confidence in their product, they would do what S&S did, intentionally damage a CP4, drive the truck to prove their product will at least keep the fuel system safe in the event of a CP4 failure. That's my two cents worth.

Just a note, but now that we are talking about all of this, I do have two marine version 10 micron SNAPP filters as well... wonder if they would be acceptable. Going to have to look iinto this.

 

^^^THIS^^^^

Thanks for that. Never saw that... I will have to check out the SNAPP 10 micron filter rating and compare to that...

 

Even for me that’s what common sense would dictate, but then again history has shown some companies with great products, great technical abilities are just concerned about releasing good those and not wasting time on a bunch of questioning by people like me that don’t know and are just asking on what seems to make sense. (They can also be the ones out of business and lose to inferior products/services from comes that more customer service oriented.)

Then you have companies that use cheaper components and set up tests. (Looking at all the infomercials showing how great things are.) They understand human nature and play to those to sell products.

SPE, in my mind would involve more costs comparing parts side by side, if they were 400, the S&S what I see would be 200 to 250’s. So are they putting more money into marketing? Why aren’t they using the hard lines along with the filters. It can’t be a rubber hose in an engine department is a better option that hard lines? I assume their response would be along the lines of overkill or whatever, but the point is if it’s overkill, why does the price not reflect it.

But all that is opinion, speculation and trying to cut all that out of the decision and not prop up either brand. Think I’m going each next week, see if there is an option to mix and match. One thing that does seem clear, the competition has caused them both to up their game.

This conversation has helped me think it through and set forth a plan. Great feedback everyone.

Right or wrong, I’m sold on the 9 micron filter at this point just how I want to go about the entire setup.

 

It’s been at the back of my mind to put in parallel return lines ….

leave the stock one just for the injector return and we will call that the high pressure return. leave that going thru fuel cooler.

run a dedicated for the DPK return, oem fuel filter return, lift pump return, terminate these at the tank fill neck. This would be the low pressure return.

This way I don’t have to worry about high pressure return pushing against low pressure returns

 

Around the 15:30 mark they seem to make a good point about when a failure occurs and the pressure it causes on the pump and the failures it can cause.


In the demo by S&S, they even show a failure of a broken key. First thing I thought watching that is what if that would have broken that gear or something else.

Think I’m going to try and figure out a way to incorporate what makes sense to me out of both options. Hopefully this thread ends up being a good central source to save the hours to watching all the videos and reading through the threads.