1978 TITLE/VIN questions
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3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
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1978 TITLE/VIN questions
hi guys, new to the forum here. If I'm posting in the wrong spot feel free to correct me
I'm not even sure if this is the correct forum for my questions
I recently bought a 1998 Ram 3500 chassis with the cab from a 1978 Ford F350 on it. on a 1998 Ram, the VIN tag is located under the windshield and then a sticker on the cab (so there's no VIN left for the Ram (not a problem I'm parting it out anyway)) but when I bought it I got a clean colorado title on the 78 ford, the only vin tag on the ford cab is riveted into the driver's door. but I'm told the fords also had the VIN stamped in the frame (which is loooong gone) and that VIN inspections on these trucks usually go off the frame?
so my questions are:
1. has anyone here ever dealt with a frame swap, if so how did you handle titling?
2. is it legal to sell the door/cab off the Ford with the title so someone could put the door on their project and license it?
any help is appreciated. thanks
I'm not even sure if this is the correct forum for my questionsI recently bought a 1998 Ram 3500 chassis with the cab from a 1978 Ford F350 on it. on a 1998 Ram, the VIN tag is located under the windshield and then a sticker on the cab (so there's no VIN left for the Ram (not a problem I'm parting it out anyway)) but when I bought it I got a clean colorado title on the 78 ford, the only vin tag on the ford cab is riveted into the driver's door. but I'm told the fords also had the VIN stamped in the frame (which is loooong gone) and that VIN inspections on these trucks usually go off the frame?
so my questions are:
1. has anyone here ever dealt with a frame swap, if so how did you handle titling?
2. is it legal to sell the door/cab off the Ford with the title so someone could put the door on their project and license it?
any help is appreciated. thanks
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,808
Likes: 2,604
From: The Shenandoah Valley
Here in Va. you'd go to the DMV and they'd schedule an investigator / inspector to take a look at it, and then if numbers were clear (nothing stolen), DMV would issue a VIN with stamped tag, new rivets, and a title for the resultant vehicle. The new VIN would have instructions as to mounting in a standard location on the frame. The VIN tag on the door as it is now is just a warranty plate, it simply includes the chassis VIN number. A door with that metal warranty plate is still just a door.
Example, say I build a trailer (actually several over the years) and apply for a VIN and title and tags, the VIN that is on the plate they give me is required to be secured with those certain type rivets to the tongue on the left side, visible to any LEO, and after it is so placed it gets inspected by a LEO just for that. You can ask him about lights, brakes, weights, etc ... but he's really only there to inspect that VIN for attachment means and location. If it's correct, he then signs a form that goes back to DMV and then I get a title and tags. Nothing stops me from adding stampings, etc in other visible or hidden places but that plate is required to be there, it is from then on, the VIN plate.
Example, say I build a trailer (actually several over the years) and apply for a VIN and title and tags, the VIN that is on the plate they give me is required to be secured with those certain type rivets to the tongue on the left side, visible to any LEO, and after it is so placed it gets inspected by a LEO just for that. You can ask him about lights, brakes, weights, etc ... but he's really only there to inspect that VIN for attachment means and location. If it's correct, he then signs a form that goes back to DMV and then I get a title and tags. Nothing stops me from adding stampings, etc in other visible or hidden places but that plate is required to be there, it is from then on, the VIN plate.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,216
Likes: 324
From: Central Florida
Virginia sounds to be quite rational. However, your experience in other states may vary. Check with the responsible officials in your state and try to work with people who have supervisory status because they are more likely to be able to work with unusual cases like this.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 16,174
Likes: 4,781
From: Burbank, WA
Every state has their own rules and may do things a little differently, but I believe the one constant that most, if not all states will follow, especially since it's a federal offence to tamper with them, is the recognition of the chassis or frame stamping as being the legal vin for the vehicle. You can sell the door, you may be able to provide the matching title (although that may be questionable, I wouldn't want to get caught doing it) along with the door that matches the tag, but it would be illegal for someone to use those parts and papers to register an otherwise title-less vehicle. Just to be clear, this is not legal advice, so check with local authorities before making any decisions for disposition of your stuff.
As far as frame swaps go, the thing to do would be to have title and papers for both the donor and the donee, have it all inspected by DMV or LEO, depending on who does that in your state, and get the proper, legal paperwork from your state's authorities.
As far as frame swaps go, the thing to do would be to have title and papers for both the donor and the donee, have it all inspected by DMV or LEO, depending on who does that in your state, and get the proper, legal paperwork from your state's authorities.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,601
Likes: 1,174
From: San Jose, CA
Not at least until you’ve had someone do a nationwide search to make sure that the frame that sports that VIN is not running around registered in any state.
Even in a non-op status, whoever owns the frame then owns the title.
You could try the DMV, but chances are pretty good that no one there is going to be able to, or willing to help. But, there are plenty of stories of those who have gotten lucky and had their local DMV office do that for them.
The typical scenario is to have a title done by a third-party. Plenty of those around, though I don’t have any info on them because I’ve never had to use one myself.
The problem is, if you sell your door and warranty plate to someone, and then they try to register it, and it turns out that there’s a vehicle running around with that frame and a new body on it, someone’s gonna be very upset.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,506
Likes: 339
From: Wildwood Pa
Is it legal to sell the cab & door without the title?
I'd say yes, & that is how I would sell it.
I'd say yes, & that is how I would sell it.
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Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: The Shenandoah Valley
Is it legal to sell the cab & door without the title?
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3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
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Just to update.
I called my local title office and talked to the top person there (i forget their official title) and explained the situation, even telling them that the frame stamp is what's usually used. they were pretty sure it was ok to sell the title and cab, or use said title cab on anything I wanted so long as the VIN tag was untampered with, but directed me to the county sheriff's office. the county sheriff sent out a deputy to perform a VIN inspection. I thoroughly explained the situation to the deputy (including about the frame rail). the deputy told me it was ok to sell the door/cab and title and uses on whatever. and gave me a written Vin inspection for the cab. although the deputy did tell me that if I wanted to make doubly sure, I could contact the Wyoming Department of Transportation (WYDOT) to make sure. I called WYDOT and got escalated up to the head of motor vehicle something something (I'm sorry I have a really bad memory), anyway, they did not answer the phone so I left a message, and I am going to try again tomorrow if I don't receive a callback.
thanks for all the input so far. Cheers
I called my local title office and talked to the top person there (i forget their official title) and explained the situation, even telling them that the frame stamp is what's usually used. they were pretty sure it was ok to sell the title and cab, or use said title cab on anything I wanted so long as the VIN tag was untampered with, but directed me to the county sheriff's office. the county sheriff sent out a deputy to perform a VIN inspection. I thoroughly explained the situation to the deputy (including about the frame rail). the deputy told me it was ok to sell the door/cab and title and uses on whatever. and gave me a written Vin inspection for the cab. although the deputy did tell me that if I wanted to make doubly sure, I could contact the Wyoming Department of Transportation (WYDOT) to make sure. I called WYDOT and got escalated up to the head of motor vehicle something something (I'm sorry I have a really bad memory), anyway, they did not answer the phone so I left a message, and I am going to try again tomorrow if I don't receive a callback.
thanks for all the input so far. Cheers
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3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
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OneTonBaseCamp i had the vin number inspected and it comes up in the name of the person who sold me the truck (i haven't switched the title to my name yet) but like I said i do have a clean current title on the vin number
Last edited by howard ward; Aug 6, 2024 at 08:24 PM.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,601
Likes: 1,174
From: San Jose, CA
Sounds like you’re in business then!
The fact that the VIN is registered to the previous owner is Gold.
We have a year long horror story on another forum. A guy bought a bronco, put a ton of money into a restoration, and only then went to register it in his name.
Found out it had been stolen. After several very helpful police officers and a cooperative insurance company, he got his vehicle back. I think they impounded it during the process.
Certainly not fun, and took a whole lot of time out of his life. Probably added a few gray hairs as well.
The fact that the VIN is registered to the previous owner is Gold.
We have a year long horror story on another forum. A guy bought a bronco, put a ton of money into a restoration, and only then went to register it in his name.
Found out it had been stolen. After several very helpful police officers and a cooperative insurance company, he got his vehicle back. I think they impounded it during the process.
Certainly not fun, and took a whole lot of time out of his life. Probably added a few gray hairs as well.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,029
Likes: 891
From: East Central Ia
Guy from work bought a car from a man whose father had passed. The son signed and dated the title with the father's name. He went to the courthouse; the dates wrong he was dead before this date I knew him. The guy from work had to post a 20k bond on the car and title. Small world sometimes. If there is a fish story about a title, I will not look at vehicle.
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