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67 Ford F100, 352 V8. I am quite sure the engine is original. (92,000 miles)
I located the engine tag fastened by the ignition coil bolt.
"352" and "67" seem obvious to me.
Can anyone help out the what the other numbers and letter signify?
Truck was built in Canadian Plant at Oakville
Last edited by Centennial F100; May 13, 2024 at 06:17 PM.
Reason: additional information
85e150,
Thanks for the link, but I am unable to find the info you referred to. Would it be possible for you to give me the post number in the thread you linked me too?
As far as previous owners are concerned I have documentation of ownership by 2 previous owners. I am the third.
First owner lived in Ohio and owned the truck from March 1967 to November 2005. 88700 miles.
Second owner Live in northern Ontario, Canada and owned the truck from November 2005 to August 2018. 91100 miles
I have owned it since September 2018.
The second owner was not aware of an engine replacement, and I have tried in the past to contact the first owner with other question but no luck finding him.
Last edited by Centennial F100; May 13, 2024 at 07:46 PM.
Reason: found what you referenced
Yes I found it and edited my earlier post. Thanks.
This would imply that it was a replacement engine under warranty. I'd love to know at what mileage it was replaced at to get a sense of how many miles are actually on the engine. I wonder how many miles the engine warranty would have been on the new truck.
Before jumping to any conclusions about replacement engines, it would be interesting to know the build date on the truck. The lower left of the tag shows the build date of the engine, in this case, 6L being November, 1966. If the truck was a late November, December or January build, it could be the original engine and the same tag or code was used on both production and replacement engines of that type. If the build date was earlier or later than this time frame, then that would lead one to give credibility to the replacement engine theory. Is the truck a manual trans truck?
52 Merc,
Good point, and I suppose I will never really know, based on your comment that it could be the same tag on both new and replacement engines. Below is the date data from the Marti report. It is a 3 speed manual, and built in the Oakville plant in Canada, but first sold in Ohio. I wouldn't know where new or replacement engines would have been built at the time, or if there are any clues I am missing on the tag. I understand that the year (6) and month (L) of production on the tag would be 1966, November.
Could an engine built the same month as the truck have made it into the truck? Just-in-time shipping from the engine plant, back in the day?
52 Merc,
Good point, and I suppose I will never really know, based on your comment that it could be the same tag on both new and replacement engines. Below is the date data from the Marti report. It is a 3 speed manual, and built in the Oakville plant in Canada, but first sold in Ohio. I wouldn't know where new or replacement engines would have been built at the time, or if there are any clues I am missing on the tag. I understand that the year (6) and month (L) of production on the tag would be 1966, November.
Could an engine built the same month as the truck have made it into the truck? Just-in-time shipping from the engine plant, back in the day?
Ford was one of the innovators of Just-in-time delivery. It's very common in that time frame to find engines with casting dates within or about 30 days of vehicle assembly. If the engine was built in the beginning of the month it certainly could have made it to assembly in time for it to be installed in your truck. My 67 Mustang was built on January 23 and had engine casting dates of December 29-31. Machining and assembly would have been a few days later, then shipped from Windsor to San Jose for installation in a matter of days. I'll go out on a limb and say, imho, based on the data we have here, you have the original engine.
Just for the sake of argument, let's say the truck was purchased and did have an engine issue that required a warranty replacement. That most likely would have occurred within the first 6 months, and since it didn't sell until late March, that puts it late Summer '67 before the problem likely arose. Then they would have had to deal with the dealer and the factory reps to ok the swap, then have an engine shipped in. A replacement engine would most likely have post dated the truck by several months. Just looking at this with this skiff of logic, this leads me to the original engine conclusion.
So, based on 85e150's post #4 and 52 Merc's post #6 and dates I have from truck information I think it could be a warranty replacement engine. It these dates are true I don't see how an block cast on November 14, 1966 could have made it into a truck built in Canada on November 22, 1966. Thoughts anyone? Thanks Marti Report - Build date November 22, 1966 Engine Tag - Code 291 and build date 6L, November 1966 Block Casting Date - 6L14, November 14, 1966.
Not that this is real important, but my truck is an unrestored survivor and I am just curious about it's history.
Engine tag and Marti report pics in previous posts. Block casting date picture in this post.
Edit: After some more reading of material from various sources, I guess it is possible that a block cast on November 14 could have been installed in a truck built 8 days later on November 22, if there was little or no cure time before machining and assembly of the engine.
Block Casting date
Last edited by Centennial F100; Jul 19, 2024 at 09:15 PM.
Reason: additional comment
I'm going to stand by my thoughts it's the original engine. The foundry's, Windsor, Dearborn, Cleveland, are basically within stones throwing distance of Oakville assembly, so it's entirely possible an engine would be built and installed into a truck that close to each other within that time frame. Machining would have begun as soon as it was cool enough to work with. Ford didn't wait around for seasoning or anything like that (or any other manufacturer, for that matter). They were in the business to build cars and trucks, period. It seemed to have worked out pretty good, overall. This is as close to "numbers matching" on a Ford as you'll ever get, lacking any other documentation to the contrary.
I'm going to stand by my thoughts it's the original engine. The foundry's, Windsor, Dearborn, Cleveland, are basically within stones throwing distance of Oakville assembly, so it's entirely possible an engine would be built and installed into a truck that close to each other within that time frame. Machining would have begun as soon as it was cool enough to work with. Ford didn't wait around for seasoning or anything like that (or any other manufacturer, for that matter). They were in the business to build cars and trucks, period. It seemed to have worked out pretty good, overall. This is as close to "numbers matching" on a Ford as you'll ever get, lacking any other documentation to the contrary.
Thanks 52 Merc, you have convinced me. This is my first classic vehicle, and since it is so "original" I am interested if finding out as much as I can about it. This thread has certainly been informative for me. Thanks to 85e150 as well.
This forum continues to help me with questions I have about my truck!
I am having my 67 Ford F100 appraised by a reputable appraiser, and we discussed the block casting, with a date cast of November 14 being installed in a truck built 8 days later on November 22. He felt that based on the engine code tag number referring to a warranty replacement, and the short duration between engine block casting and truck assembly, that it was likely that it was indeed a warranty placement. That got me to more digging and I found this post from Number Dummy to add to my confusion and not knowing for sure if the engine is a warranty replacement.
Not that, this is a huge deal to me one way or the other, but it seems to me that it is possibly a warranty replacement. Where are Sherman and Peabody when you need them!
I'm not going to claim to be any kind of expert or having any inside knowledge, most of what I know is anecdotal, learned from others with similar experience, hands on personal experience, and basically just being around the old car hobby for close to 60 years, which is what I shared above, and again here, so take it for what little it's worth.
This date code thing has been extensively researched by the Mustang community, which I have been a part of for 50 years. Sure, it's possible that what number dummy said that "it could be" (emphasis mine) 3-12 months before an engine was installed from build time, it is definitely not the norm. As fast as cars and trucks were being built, engines built and shipped around, there's always the possibility of an engine being shoved in a corner as the ones in front and restocked got used before the ones in the back got grabbed, so by the time it was finally installed it was older than typical.
Typically engines were installed within 30 days of casting. Most of the time much less. The Mustang experts will question anything more than 30 days as possibly not original without other supporting docs. Again, my own personal car had a 289 block cast in Windsor December 29, heads cast the first week of January, assembled then shipped across country to San Jose, California and installed in my Mustang by January 19, less than 3 weeks (closer to 2, actually) start to finish. (Marti report says it was built 4 days early) It's certainly conceivable your engine could've been cast, built and brought across the river for installation in a week.
As original as your truck is, I would not discount it. Make the nay-sayers prove different. I'm still standing by it. That's my 2c, based on what I know and believe. YMMV. All I can recommend is, embrace your originality and try not to overthink this.
PS, I'm old enough I grew up with Sherman and Peabody.
I'm not going to claim to be any kind of expert or having any inside knowledge, most of what I know is anecdotal, learned from others with similar experience, hands on personal experience, and basically just being around the old car hobby for close to 60 years, which is what I shared above, and again here, so take it for what little it's worth.
This date code thing has been extensively researched by the Mustang community, which I have been a part of for 50 years. Sure, it's possible that what number dummy said that "it could be" (emphasis mine) 3-12 months before an engine was installed from build time, it is definitely not the norm. As fast as cars and trucks were being built, engines built and shipped around, there's always the possibility of an engine being shoved in a corner as the ones in front and restocked got used before the ones in the back got grabbed, so by the time it was finally installed it was older than typical.
Typically engines were installed within 30 days of casting. Most of the time much less. The Mustang experts will question anything more than 30 days as possibly not original without other supporting docs. Again, my own personal car had a 289 block cast in Windsor December 29, heads cast the first week of January, assembled then shipped across country to San Jose, California and installed in my Mustang by January 19, less than 3 weeks (closer to 2, actually) start to finish. (Marti report says it was built 4 days early) It's certainly conceivable your engine could've been cast, built and brought across the river for installation in a week.
As original as your truck is, I would not discount it. Make the nay-sayers prove different. I'm still standing by it. That's my 2c, based on what I know and believe. YMMV. All I can recommend is, embrace your originality and try not to overthink this.
PS, I'm old enough I grew up with Sherman and Peabody.
Wayne,
I will concede that your well informed 2c is likely correct, but the engine tag code that points to a warranty replacement is a niggling thought in the back of my mind. You are correct that I may be getting too deep into the weeds on this. No more sleepless nights!
