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So did Ford actually implement cost reduction methods to offer this savings or will the EV division continue to loose even more $,$$$,$$$,$$$.$$?
There is no simplistic solution to EV profitability. It will happen it just will take some time. You have cost of production such as fixed overhead and R & D costs that are necessary but eventually will continue but decrease, which they will naturally. Then adoption rate also needs to increase, which it will. Then the shift to profitability will occur.
I spent 38 years working for a company who went through this cycle and eventually became very profitable. Unfortunately, they pulled back on R & D spending and innovation and they are now hurting. To survive you can’t just focus on 30, 60, 90 day profitability. You also need to play the long game and invest in the future.
There is no simplistic solution to EV profitability. It will happen it just will take some time. You have cost of production such as fixed overhead and R & D costs that are necessary but eventually will continue but decrease, which they will naturally. Then adoption rate also needs to increase, which it will. Then the shift to profitability will occur.
I like your optimism... Having said that, some of Fords other new vehicle launches appear to be profitable out the gate which maybe over simplifying facility/renovation, tooling, automation, etc costs... The Lightning has been around long enough that some economies of scale should have been in play by now.
Originally Posted by Flyct
I spent 38 years working for a company who went through this cycle and eventually became very profitable. Unfortunately, they pulled back on R & D spending and innovation and they are now hurting.
Sounds like Elon's latest move. But I do agree if you don't have a proper R&D group your days are numbered.
I like your optimism... Having said that, some of Fords other new vehicle launches appear to be profitable out the gate which maybe over simplifying facility/renovation, tooling, automation, etc costs... The Lightning has been around long enough that some economies of scale should have been in play by now.
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I believe that is will take at least another decade to realize the benefit the huge investment in Battery and electric production. But if Ford didn't do it now they would be well behind in the near future.
Other new ICE vehicle launches can utilize the existing facilities and workforce to manufacture the vehicles. That is not as easy converting manufacture facilities to EV production.
Like I said, I lived this in my work life working for a company that became complacent and comfortable with existing technology and the existing profits. We had unique products and sales reps were just order takers. . Technical service employees were resistant to change which is normal human nature. I saw the writing on the wall and I'm glad I retired before the bottom fell out, which it did
I believe that is will take at least another decade to realize the benefit the huge investment in Battery and electric production. But if Ford didn't do it now they would be well behind in the near future.
Other new ICE vehicle launches can utilize the existing facilities and workforce to manufacture the vehicles. That is not as easy converting manufacture facilities to EV production.
Like I said, I lived this in my work life working for a company that became complacent and comfortable with existing technology and the existing profits. We had unique products and sales reps were just order takers. . Technical service employees were resistant to change which is normal human nature. I saw the writing on the wall and I'm glad I retired before the bottom fell out, which it did
None of this explains why Ford would abandon proven hybrid technologies on its mass production sedans that would have bridged the transition quite nicely, considering the CD4 platform was shared with numerous crossovers. I would love to buy a Fusion hybrid now that we are looking to replace our oldest sedan in the next few years but looks like another Camry (this time hybrid) it is. In case the Ford company hasn't noticed, no matter what Chris's cousin thinks, Ford makes commodity products. No amount of Tesla cosplaying will change the nature of the brand.
Yet here we are, Ford has EVs that lose massively on each unit, ICE trucks and SUVs with massively elevated prices (that were intended to subsidize the EVs) which are piling up on lots, smaller trucks like Mavericks and Rangers that have chronic production problems to fill demand, and nothing in between.
I like your optimism... Having said that, some of Fords other new vehicle launches appear to be profitable out the gate which maybe over simplifying facility/renovation, tooling, automation, etc costs... The Lightning has been around long enough that some economies of scale should have been in play by now.
Sounds like Elon's latest move. But I do agree if you don't have a proper R&D group your days are numbered.
In Ford's case as it applies to ICE vehicles, they have the Lincoln division to absorb much of the R&D costs as well as the high end Platinum trucks, etc. The lightning stands alone in Ford's stable in the light truck segment so it has to fund it's own R&D. Ford is no doubt spreading those costs over the entire line up.
In Ford's case as it applies to ICE vehicles, they have the Lincoln division to absorb much of the R&D costs as well as the high end Platinum trucks, etc. The lightning stands alone in Ford's stable in the light truck segment so it has to fund it's own R&D. Ford is no doubt spreading those costs over the entire line up.
Introducing it with a 40k starting price was a colossal blunder in my opinion, they kicked the ladder to generate some PR buzz, and had no way of climbing down from that point on without looking like they didn't understand what they were doing.
I need to see a realistic range with a light load of approaching 500 miles, most likely Generation 3 or 4. But by then it will most likely be an Explorer with 4
x4 dual motors at least and excess of 500 miles on a charge realistic. A commuter 100 mile a day just won't fit our needs for the next 10 years. Too many
aproaches 200 mile trips & one way runs. My personal main driver is a Turbos XLT 2016 & 1 stop to fuel in a 825 one way trip. 28 mpg with rogane in the tank,
58 - 63 mph 2 lane highways.
My personal main driver is a Turbos XLT 2016 & 1 stop to fuel in a 825 one way trip. 28 mpg with rogane in the tank,
58 - 63 mph 2 lane highways.
So on that 825 mile, 13.75 hour trip you only stop once? Impressive. That’s about 7 hours before stopping. My bladder would burst trying to hold it for almost 7 hours. At my age I have a 3-4 hour bladder, which works perfectly road tripping with one of my EVs. I can empty my bladder and replenish the EV battery at the same time. Not much total time is added to the trip.
So on that 825 mile, 13.75 hour trip you only stop once? Impressive. That’s about 7 hours before stopping. My bladder would burst trying to hold it for almost 7 hours. At my age I have a 3-4 hour bladder, which works perfectly road tripping with one of my EVs. I can empty my bladder and replenish the EV battery at the same time. Not much total time is added to the trip.
7 hours before bathroom breaks isn't that unusual, my trip between the north end of Bay Area and north SD County is just shy of 500 miles and takes about 7 hours with no traffic, so by driving off commute hours I can usually make it without stopping for fuel or bathroom even when towing a trailer under 11k at about 11-12mpg on a 48 gallon tank of 87 Octane gasoline, and I'm no spring chicken either(In my previous life in MRO we used to ride in C130s and C-17s for much longer on the ferrying trips). On the return deadhead trip the truck is so happy cruising along at 70 I sometimes made it back with almost half a tank left.
Get plenty of sleep, you can stay hydrated, just stay away from sugar and caffeinated drinks, it's not hard.
So on that 825 mile, 13.75 hour trip you only stop once? Impressive. That’s about 7 hours before stopping. My bladder would burst trying to hold it for almost 7 hours. At my age I have a 3-4 hour bladder, which works perfectly road tripping with one of my EVs. I can empty my bladder and replenish the EV battery at the same time. Not much total time is added to the trip.
That's ok, we usually stop at rest stops when they are open, its the exercise of walking around for 5 minutes or so & its fueling up was what I was talking about. Sure when we push mid to high 70's + the mileages drops to 21 or so, but have the surplus to get it in one stop for gas. Mostly the point is Gumout Regane in the tank & Fuel system injection for Carbon reduction.
I can guess Ford has slowed down Hybrid thought with EV Batteries production thought is the drive to EV over Gas motors. Most likely it will all even out with increased productions of batteries to fill the Millions of vehicles needed in the next 20 years. Right now its a commuter need to go 100 miles a day, & a fill need that has to move forward most likely. Think of it, 100,000,000's of millions of vehicles world wide, realize how complicated it all gets.
Sure I am seeing 100's of acres of Solar farms being built. But think of it as 10's of millions of acres needed. its Brain boggling. 12.5 Billion KWH a day. Ugh.
Most non EV owners keep thinking that a visit a filling station is required to juice up. For EV owners that’s a rarity.
Example, I have driven my Lightning 5,080 miles since I bought it 6-1/2 months ago in Late October. I’ve added 2,409 kWh’s of charge plugged in at home or at my cabin. and ONLY 62 kWh at a public charging station. The only reason I even went to a public charging station was to verify that DC fast charging worked even though it was free. Of the free 250 kWh’s I’ve only used 62. Full disclosure I only do road trips with my F-450 towing my 5th wheel RV. The most I’ve driven the Lightning in a day was 250 miles I never needed to charge away from home or at our remote cabin.
