At the campsite...

We recently drove our 2008 Subaru Tribeca (3.6L gasoline engine with AWD) from north GA to Phoenix AZ. The trip was right about 4,200 miles in total since we made a diversion to Carlsbad Caverns in NM. By the way, this place is the underground version of the Grand Canyon. Absolutely a treasure of our nation and should be visited if possible.

We averaged 23 MPG's for a fully packed mid-size SUV with 147,000 miles on it, not too bad in my opinion. I only saw 2 charging stations and they were Tesla branded over the entire 4,200 miles, but I was not looking for them and was not seeking them out either. We did take some back roads though consisting of state and county highways and didn't see a fuel station for 100+ miles at times. We arrived in Phoenix ~50 hours after leaving our home in GA and arrived back home ~58 hours after leaving AZ. The extra time on the return trip was due to stopping to see a crown jewel of our nation (Carlsbad Cavern) and taking a bit more time since the event in AZ we went to was behind us.

We drive cross country almost every year to the SW or NW based on who or what we are going to see. This is why I am set on an EV with ~500 miles of range in a mid-sized SUV. Most people don't need that sort of range in an EV, but we do and it is a must. At least in this point in time where the charging stations are still finding their groove.

Anyway...

Last night while reading through my news feed I saw an article on RV Travel. This site is known by me to be a "decent" source of information, but also some click bait.

Headline: EV charging prohibited at 50-amp campsite pedestal, sparks debate on remote charging challenges

Link: https://www.rvtravel.com/ev-charging...pedestal-1133/

Granted, a lot of members here will not be utilizing the 50A or 30A outlets at a campsite, but I would like for them to be aware of an issue that they may be facing if they intend to do so. The article clearly states that there are EV charging stations available "a short drive away". Although, the individual that created the post about the restriction said that "Those chargers are not working" about the stations that were "a short drive away".

I suspect that if this is happening at NP's, it is only a matter of time before BLM, ACoE and other federal campgrounds will follow suit.

Happy traveling!

 

I saw this once during my trip out west last September, and it really pissed me off. KOA campgrounds are usually more expensive than unbranded ones, and I reserved one in Coleville, CA because I was planning on charging overnight. As I was checking in, the owner came out and told me I couldn't charge there, using the same BS logic the article above cited.

Thousands of us have charged regularly with that same 50-amp outlet instlaled in our garage. It's the industry standard for a home EV charging outlet, and a compliant circuit must be capable of 50 amps. EV chargers are underrated to 40A using these plugs to avoid overheating the plug, because the NEMA standards assume a worst-case scenario. This campground was the only place that hassled me about it. Every other campground, even some really old ones, had no problem with me plugging in.

The owner told me the electrical system wasn't designed for it, and that I could damage my car and fry their electrical system. He's full of crap...either the system is compliant or it isn't. If it fried my car, it would also fry any RV that plugged into it. I was really angry about it, and that place will never see me again. Which is a shame because it was a beautiful facility.

ON a related note, why the negativity? Why would this ill-informed policy spread to other campgrounds? I get that you need 500 miles of range now, but chargers are being installed at a faster pace than ever before, and everything suggests this will only continue. The EV charging landscape has improved significantly over the last year, and I expect that pace will only accelerate from here.

 

I too saw the claims as BS because RV's regularly utilize the full 30A or 50A (100A over two legs) service in the summer. Although, there have been times where "the grid" in a campground was stressed beyond the limit and it became unstable. I hardwired a Progressive EMS-HW50C into our AC service cord in order to protect us against situations like that.

Either way I see this as "a thing" going forward where there may be fines or penalties attached if you are seen doing so. Just like washing an RV at a campground site. That is specifically not allowed at most campgrounds and some will fine you for doing so if you are caught.

Negativity? I didn't see my post in a negative way, but I often see things differently than 99% of the population.

Why would it spread? Well, if one federally administered campground is posing restrictions on charging at a site, I don't see why the other federally administered campgrounds wouldn't follow suit in the future. I could be wrong though.

Tom, I get that you have repeatedly stated chargers are being installed faster and faster time and time again, I am just saying that an EV is not right for our use at this time. We are often off the beaten path and don't see another person for a long time, let alone a fuel station. We travel differently than most and we like it that way.

My apologies if my post came across negatively, it was meant to informative and a heads up.

EDIT: Since we are sharing pictures... Our Escape is just out of the shot to the right.

 

I love the photos!

I don't disagree with you about EVs not being right for your situation. The charging networks aren't developed to the point where they would meet your needs, and that will take time. My big point was that it's improving fast, and I'd bet the situation will look very differently a year down the road. I've seen one campground to have a policy against it, and I don't see why that would increase given the bogus rationale. I think these policies are a sign of ignorance, and that's going to get better as EVs become more common.

It could also be a new revenue source for campgrounds. Instead of prohibiting EV charging, they could advertise this as an included amenity and/or charge for the privilege. I've seen lots of campgrounds with electric meters for their long-term guests, and they could charge by the kWh for EV charging if the state laws permit.

 

I agree that things are moving fast and with the development and impending deployment of solid state batteries, things will get really fast.

Regarding the campgrounds... We are talking two totally different animals. KOA's, long term sites/campgrounds and the like are privately or commercially owned. BLM, NP, Forestry Service, ACoE and the like are federally owned and administered. My point is that if one entity of the government (NP campgrounds) is taking currently taking steps to restrict or deny access to the 50A and/or 30A outlets, then the others will likely follow suit. Although, there is no reason why to think this could and will likely be overturned as the EV becomes more common, but washing RV's is still "illegal" at all federally administered campgrounds.

As the EV becomes more common, perhaps the arm of the government that is pushing, sponsoring and promoting EV's will have some say in what the federally administered campgrounds (BLM, NP, Forestry Service, ACoE) allow going forward. I don't know...

As for the privately owned or commercially owned campgrounds, your right again it is ignorance, it is also greed. There is a big difference between renting a site for a night or a week and plugging in and moving on than there is staying long term for a month or two or three.

For state and county campgrounds... Well those are a mixed bag of "they do whatever they want" and can change at the drop of a hat without notice.

Again, I was not trying to be negative in any way.

 

I was wondering how these camp sites charged for shore power hook ups. Forgive the nautical reference (Navy in me) that explains why they would tell someone not to charge their EV if they charge a flat rate per night/week/month etc.... The excuse the circuit would not handle the load is BS as mentioned, it's either up to code or not, there is no inbetween.

One charging their EV would be cutting into the camps profits.

 

You are spot on and "shore power" is the well known and widely used terminology regarding the AC service at a campsite.

For federally administered campgrounds like BLM, ACoE and the like, the cost of utilizing the shore power (winter or summer) is rolled into the nightly fee. The fees often vary depending on site in relation to the water or attraction and the day of the week.

All bets are off when you talk about commercial or privately owned campgrounds, although they are "usually" rolled into the nightly fee as well. In the summer time it is not uncommon to see an added surcharge for the uptick in air conditioner use. We try not to stay at private or commercial campgrounds because they like to nickel and dime you to death.

If you are staying at a long term (no federally administered campgrounds are long term) campground/campsite, there might be a meter associated with your site or they will roll the cost into the monthly fee. Really it all depends...

EDIT: Love the avatar!

 

We recently stayed at a Brevard county (FL on the Space Coast) RV park and they were clear about their "strictly enforced" rule about one cord plugged into the pedestal at a time. One 50A, one 30A or one 20A at a time.

The rules did not specifically state someone could not charge their EV, just that the camper or appliance or anything else could NOT be plugged in at the same time.

Just FYI.

 

Very interesting, thanks. I wonder if they’d squak if I plugged the truck into the pedestal, and the camper into the truck.

 

Maybe, but technically you would be following the rules and have an argument. Likely get a swat of the hand versus an eviction notice.

Interesting indeed and something to keep an eye out for going forward.

 

I tried the reverse at a particularly unhelpful KOA in Coleville, CA. This was the only place that wouldn't let me charge the car, and they were all kinds of pissed off that I plugged into the camper. They won't see me again.

 

There is a lot of concern about EV's driving up the cost of operating the campgrounds due to high electrical usage. You can see it on the RV sites and forums. Somehow a guy running two AC's on a 50' motor home is ok, but me charging at 40A on a 220V post is going to mess up the pricing for everyone. It doesn't make much sense.

In the back country where it is most beautiful and I tend to want to drive my truck chargers are few and far between. Likely they will remain that way for a long time because not a lot of people go there. Campground charging is critical for EV's to travel in the back country.

I see this as a potential extra revenue source for the campgrounds. If they want to charge me that's fine! My SR Lightning has a 98kWh battery pack, so from dead flat to fully charged at the US average electrical rate of $0.1621 per kWh on a 220V 40A circuit it would take me 12 hours and cost the camp $15.88. If you throw in charging and line losses let's call it 20 bucks. You think that guy with the 2 AC's and the big screen TV isn't using 20 bucks worth of electricity a day? But whatever, they know him and they don't know me. Sure, I'll pay it. I'll pay a "charging fee" on a vacant site if I'm not staying over or you can go ahead and tack that on to my bill for the campsite if I am. I intend to travel in the summer in exactly this way, with my EV truck and a small pop-up camper, not burning a gallon of gas but getting to see the country.

For a small time private campground to do this I would sort of understand, they don't know any better. But the federal government? Come on! They are putting up billions for charging infrastructure, it only makes sense for us to be allowed to plug into the ones they already own.

Eric
2023 "Greased" Lightning Pro SR
1995 "Exploder" XLT
1929 Model A Super Coupe "Eileen"