Hello All,

Well, the good old girl had been running great until a few weeks ago. Went out and she cranked normal, fuel pressure normal, HPOP normal, FICM Sync normal, Battery voltage normal, injector clatter normal, just would not fire. Pulled a P2614 code for Cam sensor signal output circuit/open. So I let her sit for a few days and went back out, and yep, you guessed it, she fired up and ran like there was no problem. I did random morning and late afternoon checks and she would start every time.

So, I went ahead and changed the cam sensor as it was three years old. She started each and every time. As normal as could be. So I started driving her to work.

Today, after work on an 82 degree day, she would not start. The P2614 was back. I tried swapping the FICM relay. Still would not start. I tried manually closing the FICM relay and still wont start. FICM in sync, FICM voltage at 48-49, fuel pressure at 58 psi, HPOP during cranking was 1005PSI, ICP voltage key on not cranking was .2-.3 volts, ICP during cranking was 37%. I sat there for about an hour doing random cranks, still would not start. Called for a tow.

As soon as we got her off the tow truck, I gave her another shot and she started immediately as though nothing was wrong. I'm about to torch this old girl and claim the insurance money. The worst thing? I got home too late to smoke a rack of pork ribs. Dam!!!!

Here is some data from my phone. These images are key on engine not running. I will post more screen shots in a second post to this one. Any ideas guys? Good one I mean, nothing like, it's 46's fault. Thanks, B.

 

Hey, being Bonehead, I would have swapped the original cam sensor back in just to take that off the list. I'd wiggle/test the wiring and connector while I was there. Then, I would prolly **** and moan and whine on here for help, lol Sorry I can't offer much more.

 

Ok, here are the same screen shots key on engine running. She's not quite at running temp yet so take that into account. Alternator putting out 13.7 volts at idle. Remember, I did quite a few cranking attempts so the batteries are a little low. The batteries, by the way, are only a few months old. Do you think I have an ECM issue? A FICM issue? Or a harness issue? Thanks, B.

 

Thanks bone head. BUT, I never got the chance to do that because once she was home she started like normal. I was on the side of the road and did not have the cam sensor I just changed with me. Maybe I could have crawled under her and wiggled the pig tail but I didn't. By the way, I changed the pig tail several years ago when I had the engine out for a full rebuild. AND, I'm not getting the FICM out of sync DTC. So something somewhere is seeing the cam AND the crank sensor and is thinking all is good. B.

 

I know, I know, these intermittent failures are the hardest to fix. I'm not sure where to start. Maybe remove the main harness and give it the good old strip down and inspect everything? I did look it over pretty well when I did a full rebuild two years ago. But, I guess something could have gotten damaged in the mean time. Despite only having 8k miles since the rebuild. I definitely don't want to keep doing towing bills. Thanks, B.

 

Our 6.0 had an intermittent no start. Similar situation, replaced cam sensor and occasionally no start. A bit later our starter failed. After replacing starter, no more issues. Check if you have enough cranking rpm when it doesn’t start.

 

Pull the cam sensor, and check that it's seated fully. Sometimes during rebuilds, if the block was painted, excess paint can push the sensor out a little with too much of a gap. I'd also say that sometimes there is the potenial if it's an aftermarket cam, the button may be a little shy, causing a wider gap with less tolerance.

 

I don't have the RPM numbers during cranking. But, she is cranking as fast as she normally does. Plus, she is building 1005 psi HPOP during cranking so I think the starter is good.

Jack, I guess that's a possible situation. I would not even think to measure the cam button on a cam during a rebuild to see if it is shorter or longer than factory. I will R&R the sensor again and scrape the block of paint.

I was talking extensively with the top guys at ficm repair today. They seem to think the IPR maybe sticking and to R&R it and clean and inspect. BUT, their main focus right now of my problem is that three or more injectors are failing and that's causing the no start situation. I have never had any sign that any injector is failing such as excessive smoke or an engine miss. BUT, I did replace all 8 injectors a few years ago when I did my rebuild. About 8k miles ago. I don't remember which brand right this minute, but I think they were Warrens. I need to dig through my previous posts to see for sure.

Thanks, B.

 

P.S.

Fuel pressure. I know at WOT it drops to 52psi. During cruise it's at 58psi. If I have temperamental injectors, I wonder if this lower PSI is contributing to my issue. My HFCM is original and I did change the filter two years ago. Just thinking out loud. B.

 

I wouldn't have thought about checking the cam button either, and didn't.

The pressure is a little low, but in Nav's spec. I don't see how that would cause a no start though. The fuel pressure regulator piston seal (or spring) is more of an issue that the HFCM. The fuel demand at start is not that high.

I don't think Warren has the best injectors, but I would expect if you had an injector issue, you would have a code.

 

Are you talking about the blue spring and components Jack? Or something down on the HFCM? What SHOULD my pressure be? I have searched the net and the figures are all over the place. When I did my rebuild two years ago, I did a new blue spring upgrade just for the thrill of it (LOL). It already had the upgrade, but I decided to install a new kit anyway.

I get the usual injector clatter even when she doesn't run. I'm not getting any codes. No fuel in the oil. Is there PC based software that I could use to trigger each injector individually from a laptop? B.

 

Yeah, the blue spring components. If you got one of the non-Ford kits, they have not been that reliable. A stock system usually is in the 52-55psi range, 62-67psi with the blue spring kit. But again, if you have 52psi, I can't see how that will prevent the engine from running.

I use AE on my laptop, but that's an expensive setup, although not as bad as IDS. ForScan's laptop version will, but I'm not sure if you can still get that with the sanctions.

 

Well, I did NOT see 62-67 psi with the new blue spring kit when I installed it two years ago. So, is something else going that is keeping the pressure from going into the 60's? I did new fuel filters at the same time two years ago. So maybe my HFCM is getting weak? IDK.

I think I have AE already. I need to charge my laptop and see. Sanctions with forscan? B.

 

I can't see how the fuel pressure is causing any of your issues. 52 psi should be good enough. That is just about at my lower limit of 50 psi though, but it is at WOT ....... so I would be looking elsewhere.

We have seen people get 8 bad injectors (out of the packaging) from Warren. It CAN happen. Injectors are funny, usually they throw codes, but sometimes they do not. Could be the FICM also.

No rpm numbers when cranking is almost always the crank sensor. Even though you have SYNC, I would troubleshoot the CKP next (after you verify that the cam sensor is not "rust jacked").

 

The crank sensor was on my list, too, once he checked out the cam sensor.

Bruce, where did you get the blue spring kit from that did not achieve over 60psi after installation?