Why would it be a bit worse, isn't a Ford Battery a Ford battery? I have seen a lot of EV's for sale with really low miles, there has to be a reason people dump them soon after the purchase.

 

We aren’t a political or power generation forum, so I won’t get into that. I don’t think anything is being forced on anybody; if you want to drive a gas or diesel pickup, you should do that. I expect those would be the last things to go fully electric because of how hard it is to solve the long-distance towing problem, but that’s a matter for another thread.

Nobody in their right mind charges at a level two charger while on a trip. If you want an idea of what EV ownership is like, forget those ever existed unless you were planning on a long stop. I’ve never met an EV owner who stops at one of those unless it’s an absolute emergency, and fast chargers are going up everywhere. infrastructure has a long way to go, but it’s improving fast.

Unless you were in the dead of a very cold winter, you’d need to make one 5-10 minute charge to compete that trip.

would it? An old friend of mine has a 2019 Tesla with 240,000 miles on it. No maintenance beside tires and wiper blades, and his battery still goes 90% of its original rated range. I expect Ford EVs to behave similar, but time will tell.

I think that’s a myth. The moment you or I can’t go to a dealer and buy a vehicle that fits our needs, I will happily admit to being wrong. But we’re nowhere close to that, and I don’t expect it will ever happen.

You may not be able to see my signature if on the mobile site, but my daily driver is a Tesla Model Y. I’ve had more Ford trucks than anything else over the years, and I keep an old Expedition in the garage to pull my boat with. I’m interested in the Lightning because it would pull my boat without needing a second vehicle for just that purpose.

 

The Kool-Aid being served is no doubt strong and tasty on both sides of the discussion. Like yardbird, we keep our vehicles for 10 - 25 years and 200,000+ miles and have never had an engine or transmission replacement required.

Like yardbird, we don't live in a metro area (NEVER WILL, WOULD RATHER DIE FIRST!) and travel cross country through CO, MT, WY, SD, etc and an EV is in no way suited for our lifestyle or 10's of millions of others. Perhaps one day it will be though if the future offering from Toyota inspires other manufacturers to use common sense.

There is no room for political talk here in the tech forum, but in my opinion power generation discussions should be allowed as long as they are respectful and stay away from the political side. We talk about country of origin for parts in all of the other sub-forums until we are bleeding from our eyes.

That is just my opinion, but I gave up the moderator position and it is not my call.

 

I'm active on a few other sites, and I spend much of my time arguing against those who insist EVs are the only logical choice. I've been a rural guy who's pulled trailers for almost all of my life. Tech is evolving rapidly...if an EV doesn't fit your lifestyle today, buy a gas truck and wait awhile. The scene will be very different when you're ready for your next truck. I don't think ICE powertrains are going away any time soon. Certainly not before EV or other methods can meet every possible use case.

A Lightning would suit my needs just fine, but I'm also looking at the competition. I can put up with fugly if Tesla's Cybertruck delivers a better value, but the Silverado and upcoming Ram are also appealing. I'm in no hurry; I expect my Expedition will last as long as needed to get my boys to the lake.

 

On the topic of charging times especially when an EV battery is so low on its charge it demands immediate attention is imperative, that waiting until the last minute to do takes too much time. I have to wonder how NOT planning ahead doesn't occur to those who complain about this---do they wait until the "low fuel" warning light comes on to re-fill with dino fuel?

GIven how prevalent rechargeable batteries are in our lives currently how many of us have allowed one to discharge until it's (temporarily) dead---another instance of simply paying attention and monitoring the status of our devices, to include cell phone batteries all the way through fuel in our tanks.

 

I do agree the issue(s) of "charging availability" should be allowed as that's for now a huge part of owning an EV. Where they're located, any new plans to increase their numbers and naturally cost of use. As for anything political like our vehicle choices are being slowly eliminated, etc should be not be part of this sub-forum.

 

It’s actually counter-intuitive with how we drive ICE vehicles. Charge speed is much higher at lower states of charge, which gives an incentive to only charge as much as needed to get to the next stop with ~10-15% remaining. For example, imagine a road trip where you need 40% of battery capacity to get to the next charging station. It’s much faster to charge from 10-50% than it is from 50-90%. You’d save a bunch of time rolling into that stop at 10%, charging to 50%, and moving on from there. If you wanted to charge from 50-90%, you’d be there for three times as long. I charge to 85% for daily driving, but run as low as possible on road trips to shorten my charge times while still providing a reasonable reserve for wrong turns, unexpected wind, and traffic.

The upside is that most EVs have much better range prediction software than ICE trucks. This is because they’re not relying on an ancient float sensor in a sloshing gas tank to know how much energy is remaining, I’ve gone down below 5% several times on trips, and it’s pretty rare to hear of people killing their battery before getting to the charger.

I’ve attached a typical charge curve for a Lightning:

 

Not a chance until they get the charging stations to a point of high reliability and availability.

Just my opinion though based on the projected use of any vehicle and on our past use of any vehicle.

 

I don’t disagree, but that’s already there in some ways. Electrify America is the largest third-party network, and it consistently has the worst reliability. Others are much better, and most EVs can see real-time usage through their network connections. Tesla Superchargers have almost-100% reliability, and the number of stations has exploded in the last few years. I haven’t had a problem with one since 2019, and my car plans its route based on expected usage when I arrive.

I’ve never showed up to a charger and been unable to charge, but I have had to wait at third-party sites when some weren’t working. The charging infrastructure has improved by leaps and bounds over the last four years, and the build-out is only accelerating as more players get into the market. It only gets better from here. I’m frequently bringing up Tesla because Lightning owners will have access next year.

 

Most people charge them overnight at home only relying on hwy chargers on road trips. So I'll make my appointment on time. Sucks living in the sticks don't it? I had a place deep in the country for about 10 years, 30 miles in any direction before you hit civilization, quiet and peaceful, nearest neighbor a 1/4 mile away. Step off the back porch and drop a 12 point buck kind of place.

Couldn't get cable, couldn't get DSL, the only way to get internet was 56k dial up or a $750 dish. Rather than complain and say they shouldn't force me to buy that dish, I just bought it and got my fast internet. I don't know who's worse, people like you complaining because you CHOSE to live out in the sticks or apartment dwellers complaining because they can't charge their ev's at home. Guess what? YOU chose to live in an apartment, YOU chose to live in the sticks, now chose to quit bitching about things you can't get and get what you can.

Oh and that bs about "Forcing it down our throats" is just that, BS, No one is holding a gun to our heads making us buy the damned things, yet (unless you live in commimexifornia). So stop that weak assed excuse for an argument because it just doesn't fly.

 

Bad attitude, or just like to assume things you know nothing about? Maybe both? I've read a lot of your post in the political section. It seems you can't have a civil discussion without assuming things, then name calling. At least it seems that way to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

I live in my own home, thank you. I am on the backside of 60, and never rented in my life. I bought my own place a few days before I was 19, and have owned my own houses, a vacation home, rentals, bought and renovated homes to resale, ever since, so your apartment thing holds no water. Not that there's anything wrong with apartment living if that's what you want, or the best you can do at the time.

I do not live in the sticks. I live within the town limits of a very nice, clean, extremely low crime, to the point I don't need to lock my doors, but I do. If there has been a killing in the town limits in my lifetime, I can't remember it.

There are nice cities 15 minutes each way, on the interstate, which is two miles away. But, thanks for assuming I live in the sticks. I live on a nice street with other homes, and a thousand or so wooded acres. I can find 6 to 8 deer in my back yard every morning and evening. Great neighbors also. I like to think I live in an area that is some of the most beautiful in the country. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder you know.

Did I mention I actually have cell service, great high-speed internet that is very dependable, and all the TV channels I want, plus plenty more I don't.

I am answering your comments as civil as possible. I will not insult or belittle you. Anything I have stated above is well known by anyone that has read many of your post. You get excited easily it seems, but I could be wrong.

Now, as far a ICE vs EV. I don't care. Get what you want. Actually, I wouldn't mind an EV, it's just not practical for where I like to go. I could drive it locally, but I'm retired now, and don't drive much unless it's to the mountains or on a trip, where then an EV is too inconvenient for me or just won't work out.

California has banned ICE in the near future. We are not producing oil/gasoline like we used to. Leases for drilling are not being granted. The auto manufacturers are dropping ICE cars for EVs, but it seems the switch is not as easy as hopes since Ford has pushed their new EV offerings back a year because things are not operating as planned.

As far as being forced to buy EVs, maybe not in writing yet, but here is a paragraph I will share with you. This is not political, just facts.

{quote} Will electric cars be mandatory in the US?
Key Facts. The agency is not mandating a certain number of electric cars be sold, but is setting tighter pollution standards for new cars and trucks with model years between 2027 and 2032, in essence pushing carmakers to sell a lot more electric vehicles in order to meet the new emissions standards .Apr 12, 2023 forbes.com {quote}


Some reading for you:
Biden EPA rules to require almost 10x EV sales in 2032 | Fortune

And another
Electrification Coalition - Federal EV Policy

Not being forced? That opinion is up for debate by both sides. Again, I am not being political in my views. Just posting answers to your statements that are available to everyone.. Everything I have posted is in the news, as seen by the links. Not my opinions.

I consider this discussion closed, as we have both made our opinions known. Thank You.
Have a very good day.

 

Can't have a discussion without bringing politics into it ehh?

 

If the eye poking continues, this thread will get locked...

 

It’s about to get locked up. EVs and politics are intertwined, it’s very difficult to have a conversation on the topic without politics. It happens on other forums I’m a member of, not just here. So, we keep it somewhat civil and let others have an opinion. Quit reporting posts that make you angry or that you don’t agree with.

This is a final warning for this thread. No more banner waiving. Any mention of an elected official, current or past gets the thread locked and an infraction for the poster. Any personal attack, not just “I don’t like what you have to say about…”, but an actual attack will also result in further action.

I will say that pointing out policies made by bureaucratic agencies is, in my opinion, fair game. Bureaucrats aren’t elected. You may agree or disagree with what those agencies do, but they are run by people that no one elected.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I come here to get away from politics. We have a Club forum for that. This country is in enough disarray right now, our site site doesn’t need to follow suit. Turn off the 24 hour news and do something you actually enjoy, like working on your trucks.

 

IMHO infractions handed out to persistent violators of the "no politics" rule here and possible deletion of their post would do a lot better towards stemming those who continually ignore the rules here.

So far this is an interesting read, that coming from someone with no plans whatsoever to obtain an EV in my lifetime. So far sharing experiences of actual EV owners and operators gives me an idea of the things I'd face should an EV be part of my near future. I hope this thread isn't closed due one or two who could removed and allow a decent conversation to continue. Makes little sense to punish those who do adhere to the rules--that's what locking this particular thread would do.