Exactly!

They look the same. They taste the same. Must BE the same, eh?

I'd love to finally figure out what combo of flywheel and starter teeth is correct. I believe I still have the coarse-toothed ring gear around, and a starter that had the fine-tooth gear (taken out after the mismatch because I didn't want it ruining my new ring gear).

I could count both and see what we come up with... I'll try to find it today.

ak

 

That sounds great.

 

Checked my "coarse-toothed" flywheel ring gear and it has 153 teeth. The starter I used to have on the same gear (that made a racket) has 9 teeth.

I can't find my "passenger" 390 flywheel to check it, it's buried.

 

I just did some research and up until 1964 they used the 153 tooth gear and after that they used 184 tooth gears. This is on the flywheels though. Not sure about the flexplates.

 

Is this on the FT motors too?

 

There is such thing as a FOrd shim
I had to shim my brothers starter out on his 351W
I haven't had to shim my 390 tho
He went thru 3 starters, took it back and still need one
The new one works but it has a small thin shim (plus the flexplate)
I dont even run a flexplate on the 390 and I use the exact same starter than i used before when I had a flex plate

 

i had a similar problem with a 1968 240 six. I pulled the starter and didn't put all the washers back on it when i re installed it. the result was that the gear drive was rubbing against the flywheel when engaged, and wore the plate holding the bearings in and they all poured out. the good thing was i was able rebuild the starter with parts from a Spanish Ford Fiesta! Go figure! i now pay close attention to washers when reinstalling a starter.

 

Where do you get one?? Part number??

 

I have never seen or even heard of starter shims for a ford. that doesn't mean that there is no such thing, but it seems some of us would have heard of or used thm before when some of us old gray heads have been playing with FEs for 30 yrs or more. Anyway, you guys are really taxing this old boys memory here, but Ford Fes had a 'Bendix' brand starter in the late fifties and early sixties. In 64 or 65 or 66, ford changed to a 'FoMoCo' starter. But by then everyone had begun calling the starter drive a 'bendix gear'.....kinda like everyone refers to facial tissues as 'Kleenex'. The early wheels had 164 teeth on the and the later 184. There are also differant nose housings for the starter motor, depending on whether you have an auto or a manual tranny. The nose on my manual tranny FT starter looks just like the one for a manual tranny FE starter, casting # and everything. But the auto tranny nose has a differant casting # on it. There are several part numbers for the drives, some of them are available with oversized teeth to help compensate for wear on the flywheel teeth. I don't think any of you have really had an FT wheel by mistake, you would know right away. The FT flywheel is bigger diameter and weighs about 50 Lbs. If you mount an Ft wheel and try to use a FE bell housing, it won't fit, and the starter won't go in. The FT bell has much less taper than the Fe bells do. I wonder if some of you who neeed shims have the wrong aluminum nose on your starter motor ? Just wondering ...... or maybe have the early wheel and the late starter or viseversa.....DF

 

Honestly, couldn't tell you
It just shims it in and out
Its a bit O with the bolt holes drilled in it
Just a big washer basically with the holes for the bolts
I got mine at Oreillys, said I need a shim for a ford starter, they went and got it

 

Some of the rebuilt ford starters come with a shim that is used to position the gear of the starter in the correct place in relation to the flywheel. The paperwork that comes with the starter says that with crankshaft thrust bearing wear, the shim may have to be used.

Barry

 

I'm starting to wonder if this is the aftermarket's way of dealing with two different flywheel-to-starter clearances. Rebuild all starters with bendix "X", which has a certain depth. Need to use this starter with motor "A"? No shim. Motor "B"? .050". etc. etc.

 

Maybe... not sure..
I don't know what brand starter he got, but he's had several... until I think we figured it out he has a bent flywheel

 

I don't know anything about the shims that have been found other than they are most likely designed and used to patch a problem and not a required part when an engine is in good working order and built with matching parts. All of the Ford engines that this forum is about were not built to require any shims because Ford designed the starter to engage the flywheels and flexplates without them when new. The plate that mounts between the transmission and engine is the only thing that is supposed to be under the starter.

If anyone has taken apart any factory built FE, FT, MEL, Windsor, Cleveland, M block and etc.... Ford engine then you don't remember finding a shim under the starter. If you think you have a factory installed one I want to see a picture of it and a Ford part number for it.

You also will notice the obviously missing detail for using shims in Ford engine rebuilding manuals as well. I have looked extensively in Ford engine rebuilding books and have never seen the instructions for using a starter shim to get the proper starter engagement. Does anyone have a book with instructions about using these shims?

 

I've never seen a stock Ford starter shim, it's a GM thing.

shim shimmery shim shimmery shim shim sheroo