Starter shimming
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More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 632
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From: Fairbanks, Alaska
Starter shimming
I changed out a starter on my 390 yesterday. There was one washer on each bolt between the starter and housing. When I installed the new on I left out the washers so the starter could seat right against the housing rather than just sitting on three washers. This turned out to be a bad deal. When I started the engine the starter would not fully disengage. I ended up putting the washers back in between the starter and housing.
My question's are why does the starter need to be shimmed and is there a shim available that will support the starter all the way around rather than using washers?
My question's are why does the starter need to be shimmed and is there a shim available that will support the starter all the way around rather than using washers?
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 119
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From: simpsonville USA
What Ratt said plus make sure you flywheel isn't bent slightly. Try turning the the crank from the front and listen to see if the starter disengages. the flywheel may be slightly warped being closer to the starter at one point and further at another. Either possibility is alot of work to correct so if there were no problems with the shims, re shim it!
Ken
68 F100 390
74 Bronco 351W
Ken
68 F100 390
74 Bronco 351W
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 395
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From: South Carolina
About the shim issue... is it normal to have to shim FE starters? Anybody else having to do that? Reason I ask is that before I had my 390 rebuilt, I ran it for a lot of years and went through several starters during that time and never had a problem that required shimming, but since I've gotten it back from the engine shop, there's a loud shreek on startup. Does it every time. A few folks have told me that the starter is binding on the flywheel and needs to be shimmed. I haven't done it yet cause of the headers and all. It's a real PITA to get that thing off and back on again. I just don't hear much about having to shim Ford starters and wondered what y'all knew about such.
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island USA
I've replaced the starter in my FE 360/390 quite a bunch of times. Never had to shim the starter. Matter of fact, I'm not sure there is even a Ford way to shim the starter.
The only thing I can think of is there might be too much end-play on the crank, and the flywheel is sitting too far forward.
Or, it's just the wrong starter. Or, when they rebuilt it (if it's a rebuild), they didn't leave enough room for the gear to come back.
The only thing I can think of is there might be too much end-play on the crank, and the flywheel is sitting too far forward.
Or, it's just the wrong starter. Or, when they rebuilt it (if it's a rebuild), they didn't leave enough room for the gear to come back.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 395
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From: South Carolina
Thanks, Krewat. So what should I do to narrow it down further? Think the bendix gear is just not getting back out of the way fast enough after spinning the flywheel? Cuz that sounds like about when the screech occurs. As long as it's fully engaged and spinning the motor, there is no noise, but when it fires and the gear should be retracting, that's when it happens.
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island USA
Originally posted by 71FoMoCo
Thanks, Krewat. So what should I do to narrow it down further? Think the bendix gear is just not getting back out of the way fast enough after spinning the flywheel? Cuz that sounds like about when the screech occurs. As long as it's fully engaged and spinning the motor, there is no noise, but when it fires and the gear should be retracting, that's when it happens.
Thanks, Krewat. So what should I do to narrow it down further? Think the bendix gear is just not getting back out of the way fast enough after spinning the flywheel? Cuz that sounds like about when the screech occurs. As long as it's fully engaged and spinning the motor, there is no noise, but when it fires and the gear should be retracting, that's when it happens.
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Joined: Feb 2003
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From: South Carolina
I haven't even tried to shim it yet. It's so much of a pain to loosen the header, jack the motor up, remove the starter, etc. Been putting it off till I could figure out if that's what I need to do or not. I don't know for sure, but from what I hear, shimming seems to be pretty common with brand X, but I've never really heard of it much on Fords. Especially FEs.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,893
Likes: 12
From: Ohio
Time to hit the parts store, "purchase" another starter, pull yours and compare ends. You may find that someone has put a wrong bendix on it. Once you narrow it down, take the "new" one back and get your money.
It's a thought.
Larry
(I have NEVER heard of shimming a FORD starter. Something is definitely WRONG with yours.)
It's a thought.
Larry
(I have NEVER heard of shimming a FORD starter. Something is definitely WRONG with yours.)
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More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 632
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From: Fairbanks, Alaska
Mine is definitely shimmed with three thin washers. Without the washers the starter makes a terrible sound like it doesn't fully disengage. I don't know if it would go away after a while because I immediately shut it down and put the washers back in. The washers were in there when I got the truck and so both this starter and the last one needed the shims.
From this thread it doesn't sound like this is normal for a FE to need shims but it works so I am just going to run with it. I wish I could find a full circle shim though so the starter wasn't just touching on the three washers. I am thinking that the ears might start breaking although the old starter looked awfully old and it never broke.
From this thread it doesn't sound like this is normal for a FE to need shims but it works so I am just going to run with it. I wish I could find a full circle shim though so the starter wasn't just touching on the three washers. I am thinking that the ears might start breaking although the old starter looked awfully old and it never broke.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
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From: Missouri
I looked and looked for a shim for my starter. It was making a terrible noise. I could never find one. I finally got a starter that worked right and have had no problems since. Take your starter back and try another one. It may also be the flywheel getting worn teeth. I went through 5 starters from autozone before I got one that didn't sound horrible.
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island USA
It is possible the flywheel doesn't match the starter gear.
I had a rebuilt 360, which it turns out, probably had a FT crank and flywheel. The flywheel had coarse teeth. Most starters for FE had fine teeth. Starter always made noise on cranking (not hanging up though).
Eventually, I found that the ring gear on the flywheel was the wrong one (for heavy-duty trucks, like the FT engnie), and I got the right one.
For whatever reason, most auto shops show only one pitch, and you might have a mismatch.
For the older FE's, it's even more possible to have the coarse flywheel, I would think. Anyone else know anything about this?
I had a rebuilt 360, which it turns out, probably had a FT crank and flywheel. The flywheel had coarse teeth. Most starters for FE had fine teeth. Starter always made noise on cranking (not hanging up though).
Eventually, I found that the ring gear on the flywheel was the wrong one (for heavy-duty trucks, like the FT engnie), and I got the right one.
For whatever reason, most auto shops show only one pitch, and you might have a mismatch.
For the older FE's, it's even more possible to have the coarse flywheel, I would think. Anyone else know anything about this?