Agreed with all that has been said...I paid my deposit during the first few weeks it was offered and and am expecting a call anytime now...in which case I'll respectfully decline; instead, trade my 2015 eco in for a 2022 or 23...despite my frustrations, I'll never leave ford!

 

Great post, as usual, one big problem, that is hard to discuss, is the American part of Ford, it keeps getting smaller. The mandatory label that "declares" part "Made in North America" only fools those that had trouble understanding maps in the 3rd grade. For those of us that are not geography impaired, that could easily mean Zero parts made in the USA, with 100% being made to our north and south. Ford is "leaving their American Customer" as fast as they are leaving Made in the USA, it is sad. As you've rightly pointed out, for more than a century Ford was an American Icon, is morphing into a North American producer.
Where parts are made Does make a difference. Different places look at the products they produce in different ways, it can't be denied. For example, how many crap products come out of Switzerland? Answer: close to Zero. How many crap products are exported from other countries, without naming any country, many are known to make crap. God Forbid, if you needed a pacemaker, you'd want one made in the USA, or maybe Switzerland, but there are other places, if you found out it was made in one of the crap mfg countries, it may just give you the big final heart attack. Let's not kid ourselves, there are some places that make crap, and lots of it, some places make Good Stuff. I was in Finland 14 years ago, while the Finns don't make a lot of stuff, what they do make is top shelf, their culture would look down on anyone making crap and sending it out of their country-it is called pride. In the last decade (thanks farley) ford has found the "cheapest" suppliers, rather than the "best" suppliers, it has showed up, over and over again. Go to an Antique car show, 50 year old Fords are common (and they are great), how many 50-year-old fords do you really think will be around in 2072? Not the very limited collector Mustangs, or very limited and expensive special run vehicles, but average f150s. IMHO, the percentage will be MUCH lower.

 

That blue oval koolaid is some strong stuff.

 

I'm surprised Jim Farley is still employed at Ford. Mary Barra is probably not much better, and I'm amazed she has survived as long as she has.

My last GM truck was a '92 which I really didn't care for, but for me a truck "Made in the USA" is a big deal and I have no problem purchasing another Chevy/GMC truck if I feel it's a better truck.

A few months ago was going pull the trigger on a new Bronco for the wife and didn't like some of the design aspects of the truck (plastic oil pan, hard top rattles) and decided to wait. Then later 2.7 EB engines dropping like flys due to defective valves. And this isn't Ford's first rodeo with defective valves as some of the early build Power Stroke owners learned the hard way after the warranty expired.

 

When a brand begins to alienate itself from its most loyal users its perfectly acceptable to look elsewhere. I'm somewhat new to Ford ownership (since 2008 or so) and its unlikely I'll buy another, certainly not something brand new from a dealership. Were I looking for a new vehicle I'd hope to avoid preconceived opinions that one brand is automatically "better" than another due its claimed heritage alone. I would want the best value for my needs, who provides it somewhat irrelevant.

I do have two questions about EV's prompted mostly by points raised in this very thread concerning subscriptions. If an option or feature is enabled only by a paid subscription can those be started and paused according to a user's needs or desires? I'm thinking heated seats etc as a reference. If such a vehicle is sold can the new owner enable or delete those features?

Also how do EV's provide cabin comfort via heat and A/C? Assuming those require power from the main battery how do they affect driving range?

 

My return to Ford isn't blind loyalty but tied directly to establishing a relationship with a Ford dealer, being able to write a great deal just because I walked in the door and receiving excellent service after the sale. Additionally, I've had great luck with my Ford vehicles except for one and one does not make a trend.

The relationship with the dealer is beginning to show some strain since the old man passed away and left it all to his son. Now the great deal is harder to negotiate, the work quality is beginning to slip a bit, the service prices have exploded, the little perks that I'd get for a referral are gone, etc. I feel like a stringer in a business that I've used for over 25 years. I can feel like a stranger anywhere.

 

So far, manufacturers that have used subscriptions like this allow you to start and stop at-will. That was the core of the argument a BMW executive was making when they were pressed on their heated seat subscriptions in other markets. He mentioned that it was likely more cost-effective if a person only subscribed for those months where they would use it, particularly if they only kept the vehicle for a few years. Connectivity packages are often sold in year-long increments, but each manufacturer does it differently. It really depends on who's doing it and what their business plan was.

My 2019 Tesla had the option to purchase rear seat heaters for a one-time $300. They were built into the car, but I never paid for them with the trim level I purchased, so they could be activated later on for a fee. My Model Y has the premium interior package from the factory, so that feature is part of the car. They can't charge me or any subsequent owners to use it.

A/C is done with a compressor that's powered by an electric motor instead of a belt. Hybrids of all flavors have used similar units for decades so they can provide A/C when the engine isn't spinning, and they're powered by the HV electrical system. The compressor in my EV6 could draw as much as 4 kW at full-tilt, which is a heckuva lot more power than you can push with a 12v system.

The easy solution that some manufacturers choose to heat their EVs is with a resistive heater. Some use an immersion heater to warm coolant that gets circulated through a conventional heater core, and others use an electric heating element in the dashboard. Think of a big 5+ kW electric space heater. This is what the Ford Lightning and MachEs use, as well as most Teslas built before 2020. The better solution that's becoming more common is to turn the A/C system into a heat pump to scavenge heat from the exterior of the vehicle. I've heard that these are several times more efficient than resistive heaters in most temperatures, and my EV6 didn't lose nearly as much range to cold weather as my first Tesla did. That EV6 also had a resistive heater in the dash to supplement the heat pump when more output was desired. Compared to my Model 3, the EV6 would fry me out of the car in single-digit temperatures.

My Model Y has a heat pump without a supplemental resistive heater, but it's too early to make any real comparisons. I think it's a bigger system than the one in my EV6 and it throws a lot of heat. It sounds like a 747 on a takeoff roll when I preheat the cabin in a cold garage.

 

I didn't mean to imply any bit of blind loyalty due brand name only but there are those who do think in those terms. I completely understand your concern for reduced customer appreciation when a business changes hands regardless who takes over control. Often times the second and third generations don't have the same outlook or desire to be so attentive as you've enjoyed, that's a huge disappointment many of us face these days. It doesn't take too much effort on a dealer's part to establish and maintain a good customer relationship, takes very little to destroy it and who knows what to re-engage with a former customer.

Previously I had a very good relationship with one guy at a smaller Ford dealership's parts department---he's since moved on and I've discovered I get the exact same good service from one of the mega-dealership's here locally, their in-house inventory pretty amazing. That dealership (Ricart Ford etc) is now third generation and so far seems to have a team in place that'll retain my business as long as that remains so.

Tom thanks for the info about subscriptions and such---very informative!!

 

I didn't take it that way, sorry if my wording made it seem different.

I sold new Fords for about 6 months back in 1989. As a fledgling sakes person, I actually did a pretty good job considering the economy was a wreck from 1988 into the early 90's.

I credit any small success that I may have had back to the dealer as they had a very extensive week long training program. 40 hours of classroom and practical application and some shadow time. There we were taught to find the answers to the hard questions and were taught to learn our inventory, major service points, safety equipment and be able to demonstrate how to use the onboard survival gear such as the jack and spare tire.

We were taught how to prequalify NOT pre-judge a potential customer. We were taught to start a client off with the least equipped vehicle and let them choose from there. We were encouraged to take a set of keys to anything on the lot and drive the dealer's road course around the area for vehicle and territory familiarity.

We did the intro with the sales manager and the F&I guy for final closing and financing. We never let them sit and wait while a decision was being made. We did the intro with the service people, prep people and showed them additional inventory just to keep them busy while the details were being worked out.

Now things are so much different. Sales people don't know squat and are used by the dealer just to get traffic in the door. Admittedly, there is a lot more access to information for us to come in armed with to the teeth with our own financing options, vehicle options, etc. All I need a sales person for is to grab me a set of keys and a plate for a test drive. No one in the front of the house at my dealer has near the knowledge that I have and that becomes painfully obvious in the first two minutes. I've used the same sales guy for my last two buys and my daughter's 2018 truck. He just tells, "Tim, you already know what you want and what you want to pay, lets just drive the damned thing and get to it".

I want the dealer to stop acting like they're selling me a washing machine that I'm going to throw away in 10-12 years and go back to the days when a vehicle purchase was important and detail oriented.

 

Just making sure I didn't word my reply incorrectly- thanks for clarifying that!

Those were tough times especially if new to the sales end of it all.

That'd be a guy I'd want to buy from, there to answer questions if they came up otherwise "gimme the keys dammit!

I love reading how that dealership fostered and nutrured you through the learning process, it shows they wanted you to be productive for your mutual benefit---if yoiu're making money they're also making money. I also like how they stayed with the potential customer to actually help them purchase a car rather than just "hammer close" them into something, anything.

The analogy of washing machine sales is maybe in large part due the throw-away society we've created here in the USA? When I hear someone say a vehicle with 100K miles is worn out and ready for the junk pile I LOL. It was back in the mid-80's when I bought a gently used Toyota Celica GT with just under 70K miles--since then noting under 150K or more miles, have never ended up with anything other than a reliable car/truck that served me well.

 

This is becoming comical...

Headline: Ford hikes F-150 Lightning's price again to battle high costs

Link: https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...up-2023-03-30/

 

Ha! I was going to post the exact same thought. Comical is the first thing that came to mind.

Meanwhile at General Motors... How Much Is a Chevrolet Silverado EV Pickup? (motortrend.com)

Not sorry at all that I cancelled my reservation. I'd happily own an Extended-Range Pro for $50k. I never would have had that chance as a private consumer, but I would have done it. Add 50% to the base price, then another $10k for the big battery, and you lost me. I almost sound like a GM/Tesla/everyone else troll at the moment. These price increases are just silly.

I like Ford trucks and would love to find another someday. Zero chance that'll happen unless things go a very different direction.

 

Currently waiting to see what Stellantis brings to the table with the RamEv. Put a deposit down on one any way. Hell, maybe by the time it's ready the Cyber truck might actually look like a truck and be affordable by then LOL.

 

Have GM or Stellantis given a forecast msrp on their trucks yet? If not, Ford's latest increase will just raise the floor of pricing for everyone coming out with E pickups.

 

I posted a link above; they're still insisting it will start at $42K. I watched an overview by a prominent YouTube reviewer who got to crawl all over a preproduction model last month, and he mentioned that price several times.