Nope. We're not doing this again.

Here's a quick tip: If your thought includes "China", "CCP," or goes into any flavor state or federal policy, it does not belong in the tech forums. Take those posts and lobby your congressmen with them instead of dragging this forum sideways.

 

Is anyone watching the Maverick? When it debuted, it Ford marketed it as the only truck in the country to sell for under $20K. And now the base price of the 2023 just crested $22K. A 10% increase in two model years? Most peoples wages aren't keeping pace with that.

It's fair to say that 22K is still an affordable price but you're not getting a lot for $22K and Ford seems to have even less interest in meeting demand.

Say what you want but, Ford is pricing it's products as if they are a premium car builder but they are not. Ford has quality issues throughout the entire blue oval and Lincoln lines. Ford's North American parts content has taken the sharpest drop of any of Detroit's car builders sourcing at least 45% or more of the vehicles components from other countries and having several models with final assembly overseas or south of the border. This leaves the K-twins, Honda, Toyota, Nissan and others to be more American made than Ford.

Yes, yes, I'm in tirade mode on a soapbox right now because this makes me very angry. When I bought my 2011 truck, the North American parts content was 81% rivaled only by the Tundra at that time. My truck has experienced just one $300 repair in 11 1/2 years and 118K miles of service. I don't think that anyone who is buying a Ford today will be able to make that claim.

I really hope Ford can get their heads back in the game and remember that their bread and butter comes from working class people such as myself.

OK, rant over and I'm sorry if I've offended anyone in my overly critical assertion of Ford's decisions.

 

Think again about them.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates...ation-hyundai/

 

I don't know...I think the Maverick is the one example where they aren't trying to outprice the competition. 10% over two model years is 5% each year, and would be right in-line with the inflation rate over those two years. Several automotive reviewers have called the Maverick the best value on wheels right now, and I think it's still that at $22K. Their EVs are the opposite end of the spectrum. The base Lightning is 42% higher over one model year.

Maybe, but where the parts come from has no relation to the quality used. We've been seeing it for decades now. Remember the 1990s when domestic vehicles were awful compared to the Japanese and new Korean imports? Some of the most reliable models on the road have high foreign parts content, and that includes models assembled in Mexico. People often poke fun at Chinese-made components, but some of the highest-quality stuff on the planet comes out of China as well. You see cheap garbage and some of the highest-quality stuff on Earth coming out of China and the Indo-Pacific region, as well as Central and South America.

I think there was a time when country of origin could be a proxy for quality, but those times are long gone. My EV6 was the most reliable thing in their lineup according to Consumer Reports, and it has a 95% Korean parts content. Most everything else they sell over here is sourced from everywhere else and assembled here.


Not at all, Tim; rant ON! I had this conversation with my mom just yesterday. I told her how I thought it was a parallel to what some dealers were doing during peak supply chain madness. They leveraged their market power to increase their profits. It's ethical and predictable in a capitalist system, but lots of consumers were turned off. I told a few dealers during that time that I understood it, could respect it, but that I would never pay over MSRP. I don't think any of those dealers will ever see me again.

I think Ford is doing similar. As I told my mom, many of their customers have a long memory, and I don't know if I would consider another new Ford for a long time. Notwithstanding their quality issues, I think they make competitive vehicles in most segments. They have something special with the Lightning, but the competition is coming. After going for the Model Y on Friday, I'm out of the game for at least a few years because it met the need that I was looking to the Lightning for. It'll be getting their factory towing package before the spring when it's time to get the boat out of storage.

Meh...I don't like condemning anyone without knowing their level of responsibility. It looks like a couple of their suppliers got busted, but that article also mentioned contract labor hired by those suppliers. Hyundai predictably responded strongly against those suppliers. I'm curious to hear more when it comes out. I can also see a situation where DoL inspectors show up on a day when the boss brought his teenage kid to the office for the afternoon and made a scene. Not sure that's what happened here, but we need more info before coming to any strong conclusions.

 

I undoubtedly worded or expressed my feelings wrong. So your thoughts are helping me to align mine.

What I wanted to say was that Ford's quality is down and they're using foreign parts. Not a good look but I understand full well and agree that Asian parts can be superior in many ways.

Competition for the Maverick is coming fast with reported entries from Toyota, Ram and GM. The renderings of the little Toyota which is built on the Rav4 chassis is incredible looking as will no doubt carry on with Toyota's superior quality. I'll be looking hard at that one.

I've been owning Ford vehicles since I was in HS and I really do hate to rail against the blue oval but they're pissing me off.

 

I think GM is the most reassuring of all the competition. They have piled a ton of money into electric cars, but they're doubling down on affordability across their lineup. I've only owned one GM product in my life, and it was old. But at the rate they're going, I could see another one in the future before I look at Ford again.

 

Same here. The thing I like about how GM packages their trucks is that even the stripped Custom Cab gets more tech than the F-150 XL.

 

An XLT Lightning starts out more than a King Ranch gasser. If you put any kind of options into it it pushes it past 70k. If I had that money to spend I'd say screw it and just get a Platinum gasser and really drive luxuriously. Talking 3 full trim levels of difference for virtually the same price.

 

Lightning XLT, with ONLY ONE OPTION, extended Range battery, starts from there at $81,000, again the Only option-the extended range battery. Once you've added all the options you'd like in your new truck, this is not the f150 workhorse of years past-not even close.

 

I mean...to be fair, the extended-range battery requires the 312a package, which means you get some other stuff with that battery. But if you do any kind of road tripping with the truck, it's really needed. I had the standard-range Model 3 and was never happy with the 240-mile rating. EPA ratings are for optimal conditions, and the smaller battery pack in the Lightning charges slower as well. Adding insult to injury is that the Lightning uses an old-fashioned resistive heater which saps a lot more range in cold weather.

I hate to say it, but Farley & Co. are doing a great job turning me into a GM fan.

 

I saw my first Lucid Air Dream today. It was pretty slick looking and sounded "advanced" as it went by with a whirring electric motor noise. At this time, this is the only EV that fits our requirements with a range of 500+ miles, except for the price. The price is well out of our range.

 

I read an article today, where Farley admits ford has quality problems, his excuse, or explanation (depending on your fan status) is something along the lines of, "Ford is real big, and to fix thing takes a long time......." or, something along those lines. This is not the type of comment I'd expect from good leader, but the world is changing.

 

I was not aware this car had a 500-mile range-that is a real game changer, as for me, anything under 400 is a pass. I'm going to look a little closer at these cars, reliability/price etc. but at first glance, they look good.

 

Dear Jim Farley,
Quality is suffering... Product cost is too high... Product configuration doesn't meet customers needs... Loyal customers are jumping ship!

Rome is burning and the ball is in your court. Fords failures is your responsibility!
Sincerely,
Fish

 

Ive never seen a situation where the CEO of a car company has openly displayed this much contempt for the buyers who propped the very company that pays him millions a year for more than a century and then some.

Joke’s on us for buying American I guess, after all the ford loyalists’ grumbling about GM being Guangzhou Motors and Chrysler being a Fiat.