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What? In 10 years...."The electric will be far cheaper to own and operate...." Damn that is one fine crystal ball!!! When you state, "government subsidized companies like Tesla and Kia, are you talking about the $7500 Tax Credit given to purchasers of their EVs? I'm pretty sure Ford's EVs qualify for the government handout (at the expense of every single American). I for one believe in Free Market system, IF EVs are so wonderful, no handouts, no tax credits, etc. would be necessary. There are enough experts running around that love EVs, I'm surprised the mfgs can make enough, why are there tax credits? I'm not sure, electric bikes, shouldn't qualify for a $7500 tax credit!
In your open you state Toyota is doing nothing with electric cars? Are you serious? Nobody has more patents on the Solidstate Bat, than Toyota. Toyota is leading the way in actual, long term, safe Electric, BTW the decades of research that went into, and data derived from vehicles such as the Prius are the bedrock of Toyotas electrification plan. Take away the Govt handouts, I think we all know what would sell, hybrids would push 90+% of the EVs out of the market. To real measure of popularity in the Free Market, requires that the Free Market is allowed to operate, once the dirty, fat finger of the Tax Credit handout is removed from the equation (along with govt mandates), we'd have real, untainted sales figures. As Li has increased in price by at least 800% in the last two years, the tax credits have funneled massive amounts of wealth from the US-to China. The very steep and steady rise of the cost of Li, has no end in sight. It is a shame that in 2022 the call for freedom, and free markets is real, somewhere along the line, the idea of freedom has melted away.
Or Ford could do what Toyota is doing with electrric cars, which is nothing. My Windows 10 PC still has signicant problems and Microsoft has been working on its operating systems since 1982. One has to buy a Apple computer to get a decent operating system. Today's cars have more electronics than any computer and more teething problems.
With auto companies it is like trying to redesign an aircraft while it is in flight. They are being forced to innovate by government regulators and compete against government subsidized companies like Tesla and Kia.
Early adopters can expect problems and the same thing happened with the shift away from toxic leaded gasoline in the 1970's. Cars became far less reliable with new emissions control systems that initially were analog and very crude. Check out a air hose diagram on a 1970's Toyota, any which could fail and bring the engine to its knees.
There will be a transition from 100% ICE to hybrid to plug-in hybrid to full electric over the next 10 years. The electric vehicles will be far cheaper to own and operate and going to a shop for an oil change or filter change or belt change or repairs to a gas or diesel engine will become a thing of the past, like having to re-gap the points on a distributor.
They fixed Windows 10 problems, all of them with 1 patch called Windows 11.
Or Ford could do what Toyota is doing with electrric cars, which is nothing. My Windows 10 PC still has signicant problems and Microsoft has been working on its operating systems since 1982. One has to buy a Apple computer to get a decent operating system. Today's cars have more electronics than any computer and more teething problems.
With auto companies it is like trying to redesign an aircraft while it is in flight. They are being forced to innovate by government regulators and compete against government subsidized companies like Tesla and Kia.
Early adopters can expect problems and the same thing happened with the shift away from toxic leaded gasoline in the 1970's. Cars became far less reliable with new emissions control systems that initially were analog and very crude. Check out a air hose diagram on a 1970's Toyota, any which could fail and bring the engine to its knees.
There will be a transition from 100% ICE to hybrid to plug-in hybrid to full electric over the next 10 years. The electric vehicles will be far cheaper to own and operate and going to a shop for an oil change or filter change or belt change or repairs to a gas or diesel engine will become a thing of the past, like having to re-gap the points on a distributor.
My thoughts: Electronics can be a bitch... They will completely ruin your day and have zero remorse for the headache and anguish they have caused you. Sometimes they do not play nice together and this is usually when you are at your most vulnerable. I am curious to see what the EA engineers come up with, but I would venture to guess there was a circuity issue within the EA connector due to use and general wear and tear. It is nice to see the companies involved (Ford and EA) seem to be taking care of their customer though.
Yeah, I watched that one unfold on Twitter yesterday and figured we'd hear more about it. The truck's owner only had a handful of followers, but immediately after Tweeting, it was spread far and wide. I saw a bunch of journalists ask to speak with him. Pretty fascinating to watch this kind of thing play out.
It's too soon to tell what happened, but this could have been a modern incarnation of the age-old motorist being sold a bad tank of gas. I've never heard of this happening before, so I think it's more likely that the Lightning had some kind of failure in the power electronics than anything else. The 12v and HV systems are isolated from each other, and breakers in the DC-DC converter should prevent an HV failure from frying the 12v side. I'm very curious to see what the cause was.
Yeah, I watched that one unfold on Twitter yesterday and figured we'd hear more about it. The truck's owner only had a handful of followers, but immediately after Tweeting, it was spread far and wide. I saw a bunch of journalists ask to speak with him. Pretty fascinating to watch this kind of thing play out.
It's too soon to tell what happened, but this could have been a modern incarnation of the age-old motorist being sold a bad tank of gas. I've never heard of this happening before, so I think it's more likely that the Lightning had some kind of failure in the power electronics than anything else. The 12v and HV systems are isolated from each other, and breakers in the DC-DC converter should prevent an HV failure from frying the 12v side. I'm very curious to see what the cause was.
I don't follow Twitter at all. Not when it was pre-Elon or now when it is currently Elon Twitter.
I read the article and reread a couple of the paragraphs twice to try and glean a bit more information from them than I might have absorbed the first time, but the details were quite lacking. Rightfully so as the raging wildfire speed response the story was receiving is something I try to avoid until the dust (smoke) settles and the facts are readily available. I thought the perceivably spontaneous assistance that Ford and EA were offering was great to see. Especially in this day and age when a customer is mashed into a line item on a prospectus report.
Time will tell what happened, but I am a devout believer in anything designed or made by humans can and will fail at some point. This is a new a new design and the bugs are there waiting to leap out in an attempt to ruin a perfectly good day. On the positive side of things, there was no fire or harm to anyone involved in the component failure. I would have likely rented a car and continued on the journey and dealt with the issue at hand once Ford and EA were able to sort out what happened. At least the truck is still under warranty too, so there are at least two positive aspects to this story.
Tom, if you see any further developments in this story and someone has not already posted about it, please share the knowledge!
I found this part intriguing. "Eric Roe later tweeted that a dealership informed him the 12-volt battery on the truck needed to be replaced before further diagnostics could be performed."
The reason is I've had a few regular 12v batteries pop on me over the years and each and every one was when initializing the starter. I have no clue how the 12v and HV batteries are interconnected if at all but how plugging in to the charger to charge the HV battery could have had any effect on the 12v battery if it is what actually popped, is intriguing.
The 3 times it happened to me, 3 different vehicles, all were loud pops, loud enough to make me duck down thinking someone was shooting at me kind of loud lol. Open the hood and acid dripping from the hoods with the battery case split open down the side on 2 of them the other sent the entire top to the other side of the engine bay.
Being very unaware how an EV is built or functions do I gather correctly there is a 12 VDC "normal" battery on-board? If so what purpose does it serve?
Being very unaware how an EV is built or functions do I gather correctly there is a 12 VDC "normal" battery on-board? If so what purpose does it serve?
TIA
Yeah, every EV I've ever heard of has a 12v battery.
There are two completely separate electrical systems. The high-voltage(HV) system powers the A/C compressor, cabin heating element, and traction motors. The HV side is linked to the 12v side through a DC-DC converter that steps the voltage down to 12-13v to charge the battery and power the 12v electronics. I think they're done this way for cost and safety reasons. In general, you don't want 400-800v running through the cabin and powering things it doesn't have to. High-voltage lines are run through bright orange conduit so that they can't be mistaken for something less hazardous.
For safety reasons, the HV system is disconnected whenever the vehicle isn't running. There's a mechanical disconnect that opens the circuit when you shut the vehicle off. Ford has had issues with this part in the MachE where the contactors will weld themselves open or closed, which completely disables the car. They had a recall over it, and the repair involved dropping the battery to change out the contactors in cars that suffered a failure. Tesla uses a pyrotechnic fuse to sever the connection in the event of an accident, and I'm not sure if that's industry standard or not.
The 12v battery exists to do the same job that it does in an ICE vehicle. It runs the 12v system when the HV system isn't active, and it's required to run the power electronics that run the checks and close the HV contactors when you start the system. A dead 12v battery will completely brick the car, just like it would an ICE car. This recently happened to me. I had a fully charged 800v battery under the car that I couldn't do anything with because the 12v battery died. I had to charge the 12v battery to get things going again.
Being very unaware how an EV is built or functions do I gather correctly there is a 12 VDC "normal" battery on-board? If so what purpose does it serve?
TIA
JWA, you are right there is a 12v battery in each EV, but Tom is wrong...
The primary role of the 12v battery is to blast tunes LOUD and PROUD, blow up inflatables with a small tire compressor, provide power to the powered cooler so the frosty beverages stay frosty and last but not least, plug in the 12v disco ball for when the sun sets.
Knowing Tom is a well experienced EV owner, I would have bet a ham sammich he would have known those. Good thing I didn't bet, as I would be down one glorious ham sammich...
JWA, you are right there is a 12v battery in each EV, but Tom is wrong...
The primary role of the 12v battery is to blast tunes LOUD and PROUD, blow up inflatables with a small tire compressor, provide power to the powered cooler so the frosty beverages stay frosty and last but not least, plug in the 12v disco ball for when the sun sets.
Knowing Tom is a well experienced EV owner, I would have bet a ham sammich he would have known those. Good thing I didn't bet, as I would be down one glorious ham sammich...
All true, and a big oversight on my part.
The HV system, in contrast, can be used to drive higher-power devices like a microwave to heat up your ham sammich. High-powered 120v outlets are almost the exclusive domain of EVs like the Lightning.
