Double Roller Timing Chain settings
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,576
Likes: 41
From: Wyoming
Double Roller Timing Chain settings
Installing a new timing chain and gears in my 400. 1979 Bronco.
I am considering advancing the cam timing 4 degree, 8 degrees at crankshaft.
Has anyone done this and what is your opinion of using this much advance. I like low end torque and could care less about top end HP.
Thanks.
I am considering advancing the cam timing 4 degree, 8 degrees at crankshaft.
Has anyone done this and what is your opinion of using this much advance. I like low end torque and could care less about top end HP.
Thanks.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,576
Likes: 41
From: Wyoming
I live at 7200 feet and detonation is nonexistent up here. That is why I am considering this.
Speaking of gaskets, I got an oil pan gasket set Milodon 40400 part number.
The timing chain gasket set Fel-Pro TCS45283 came with a new front oil pan seal and that seal is about 1/4" longer than the Milodon front and rear seals. The Fel-Pro seems to fit much better.
I thought 351C and 400 oil pans were the same, why would the Milodon be too short?
Any suggestion on the correct part number for a Ford 400 oil pan gasket set?
Speaking of gaskets, I got an oil pan gasket set Milodon 40400 part number.
The timing chain gasket set Fel-Pro TCS45283 came with a new front oil pan seal and that seal is about 1/4" longer than the Milodon front and rear seals. The Fel-Pro seems to fit much better.
I thought 351C and 400 oil pans were the same, why would the Milodon be too short?
Any suggestion on the correct part number for a Ford 400 oil pan gasket set?
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,760
Likes: 2,590
From: The Shenandoah Valley
I think the 351M and 400 blocks are wider at the oil pan surface than the 351C blocks to accommodate the 400's longer stroke. 351Ms and 400s use the same block.
Not 100%, so same 4 pc gasket might work, and oil pan still different?
Not 100%, so same 4 pc gasket might work, and oil pan still different?
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,657
Likes: 776
Installing a new timing chain and gears in my 400. 1979 Bronco.
I am considering advancing the cam timing 4 degree, 8 degrees at crankshaft.
Has anyone done this and what is your opinion of using this much advance. I like low end torque and could care less about top end HP.
Thanks.
I am considering advancing the cam timing 4 degree, 8 degrees at crankshaft.
Has anyone done this and what is your opinion of using this much advance. I like low end torque and could care less about top end HP.
Thanks.
Without checking the cam timing with a degree wheel it is tough to say if 8 degrees of advance will be helpful or not. I don't know what intake centerline is used with the factory cam but if it is back at say 120 or so then advancing it that much might be helpful.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,881
Likes: 84
From: Wake Forest, NC
not that I'm aware of. The OS30227C is listed for Cleveland blocks as well. So I guess it's made optimally for one or the other. But everything else I've seen in that area of the engine is the same between M blocks and C blocks.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 242
Likes: 17
From: OH
the pans are interchangible as ive used a rear sump C pan on a 444-451 stroker.
the cam advance will make more bottom end, did this when i threw a comp 268H in a 351m to make up for lack of bottom end when we began our journey into the 335 series multiple years ago.
the cam advance will make more bottom end, did this when i threw a comp 268H in a 351m to make up for lack of bottom end when we began our journey into the 335 series multiple years ago.
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Mountain Pass
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Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2013
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From: Wyoming
Well, all is back together with the crank sprocket advanced 8 degrees. I assume this is 4 degrees advance on the camshaft.
Lots of low-end power and my vacuum reading went from 17 in hg at idle to 22 in hg at idle with camshaft advanced. I have NEVER seen 22 in hg at idle in any of my engines because I live at 7200 feet. I believe the new timing chain also had a lot to do with more vacuum as the old one was really sloppy.
I had to adjust my ignition timing at mid throttle high load to 30-32 degrees advanced as it bogged slightly at 26 to 28 degrees advanced. All other ignition timing settings stayed the same. I think the added vacuum thru off my timing table a tad and all is good now. Pretty happy with results.
Don't think I would advise this mod for lower elevations.
Lots of low-end power and my vacuum reading went from 17 in hg at idle to 22 in hg at idle with camshaft advanced. I have NEVER seen 22 in hg at idle in any of my engines because I live at 7200 feet. I believe the new timing chain also had a lot to do with more vacuum as the old one was really sloppy.
I had to adjust my ignition timing at mid throttle high load to 30-32 degrees advanced as it bogged slightly at 26 to 28 degrees advanced. All other ignition timing settings stayed the same. I think the added vacuum thru off my timing table a tad and all is good now. Pretty happy with results.
Don't think I would advise this mod for lower elevations.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 242
Likes: 17
From: OH
Well, all is back together with the crank sprocket advanced 8 degrees. I assume this is 4 degrees advance on the camshaft.
Lots of low-end power and my vacuum reading went from 17 in hg at idle to 22 in hg at idle with camshaft advanced. I have NEVER seen 22 in hg at idle in any of my engines because I live at 7200 feet. I believe the new timing chain also had a lot to do with more vacuum as the old one was really sloppy.
I had to adjust my ignition timing at mid throttle high load to 30-32 degrees advanced as it bogged slightly at 26 to 28 degrees advanced. All other ignition timing settings stayed the same. I think the added vacuum thru off my timing table a tad and all is good now. Pretty happy with results.
Don't think I would advise this mod for lower elevations.
Lots of low-end power and my vacuum reading went from 17 in hg at idle to 22 in hg at idle with camshaft advanced. I have NEVER seen 22 in hg at idle in any of my engines because I live at 7200 feet. I believe the new timing chain also had a lot to do with more vacuum as the old one was really sloppy.
I had to adjust my ignition timing at mid throttle high load to 30-32 degrees advanced as it bogged slightly at 26 to 28 degrees advanced. All other ignition timing settings stayed the same. I think the added vacuum thru off my timing table a tad and all is good now. Pretty happy with results.
Don't think I would advise this mod for lower elevations.
Glad ya got it squared away! im at ~1000ft in the appalachan valley and if imm not making 21-22in/hg in something stock/mild im opening it to find out why. ive recently had issue w my 72 LTD convertible so thats next project after timing set (9 keyway) in my 77 F350 dump (351m) ill probably be doing a very similar setup as you in the dump so we'll see how bad she pings lol
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,760
Likes: 2,590
From: The Shenandoah Valley
Try a Google search for "silent chain vs roller chain" and look at life, strength, noise, etc. I think I'll stay with the stronger, longer wearing, quieter silent (also referred to as an inverted tooth) chain.
Last edited by tbear853; Aug 23, 2024 at 11:09 AM. Reason: filled it
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,623
Likes: 342
From: Albuquerque
Ia believe it should be 4 degrees at the crank. Anything more would be too much. Anyway sounds good. I'm at about a mile up with a somewhat modified 400 and I run about 38 total and 24 at idle including 10 of vacuum advance. No knock at 9.5:1 compression.
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