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Old May 9, 2022 | 05:45 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by aldridgec
he stated 77 f250 4x4, but may have added that. I am assuming it's a late model, but I'm not familiar with the highboys very well but i believe they have a complety different setup. These parts are sorta listed, the es444lis a tie rod for the earlier trucks but the es3625 is for a dodge. I'm betting that's the one with the washer on it as I noticed that too, and probably why I passed on it when I looked into it. You should ensure the taper matches exactly as they don't always, but will feel tight until they break.
FYI
All the tie rod and drag link tapers are the same taper. The only difference in different vehicles is how far down they drill. It is 1 1/2 inch per foot of taper. Also read it comes out to 7 degrees but not sure on that.
Also ball joints are 2 inch per foot of taper on all ball joints.
I used the drag links off the late 70's chevy 4WD and reamed out the holes to correct depth.
 
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Old May 9, 2022 | 07:30 PM
  #17  
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Moose, thanks for your input. Lots of good info coming across this post.
 
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Old May 9, 2022 | 09:52 PM
  #18  
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Anytime sir!
 
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Old May 10, 2022 | 12:32 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by moose4x4
FYI
All the tie rod and drag link tapers are the same taper. The only difference in different vehicles is how far down they drill. It is 1 1/2 inch per foot of taper. Also read it comes out to 7 degrees but not sure on that.
Also ball joints are 2 inch per foot of taper on all ball joints.
I used the drag links off the late 70's chevy 4WD and reamed out the holes to correct depth.
Did the same.
 
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Old May 11, 2022 | 08:27 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by moose4x4
FYI
All the tie rod and drag link tapers are the same taper.
Nope.

There are some common ones for sure, and different girths can sometimes be accommodated by reaming, but there are critical dimensions that should be ensured for the part to fit properly and not have issues down the road. Stating they are all the same is a at best a gross simplification and at worst wrong, that could lead to misinformation and parts and steering failure.
 
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Old May 11, 2022 | 08:41 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by aldridgec
Nope.

There are some common ones for sure, and different girths can sometimes be accommodated by reaming, but there are critical dimensions that should be ensured for the part to fit properly and not have issues down the road. Stating they are all the same is a at best a gross simplification and at worst wrong, that could lead to misinformation and parts and steering failure.
****************************
 
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Old May 11, 2022 | 09:26 PM
  #22  
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Up here in Northern California we have many off-road shops selling steering components.
A few I would phone for info would be:
IHAmerica
PartsMike
WFO products

I currently drive a '77 F350 which I converted to 4x4 way back in 1998 using DynaTrac upper cross-over steering arm on a '79 king-pin D-60 front.
Seems to me I also wound up using a large flat washer to get proper cinch on the tie-rod ends.
I also made up my own adjustable drag link assembly, and am very confident and careful with my welding practices using mig.
I also modified and added a panhard rod from a '79 full size bronco to the D-60 up front to eliminate any Death Wobble.

The post mid-77 4x pickups were low-boys like the '78 and '79 models.
So my now 4x pickup is an "in-betweener" of sorts, so not a high-boy, and not a low-boy. It is a Mutt. hahahaha

Just the other day I had no luck finding an online Rod-End Taper Chart showing standard tapers for our use.
 
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Old May 11, 2022 | 10:23 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by moose4x4
I guess I should clarify, all the research I did back in the 70's showed all American vehicles had same taper.

Retired, ASE Master Auto and ASE Master Truck Technician, Plus Numerous Certifications for Emergency Vehicle maintenance, and other ASE Certifications.
Despite all that, you were willing to dismiss my info and warning with assumptions based on 40 year old information. While i realize we are in a forum for 40+ y/o trucks, the dodge part is from a much newer model. Small variances and oversights can have big impacts in a steering system, especially when mixing and matching components. Due diligence can't be overstated here.
 
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Old May 12, 2022 | 05:35 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Greaser007
I also modified and added a panhard rod from a '79 full size bronco to the D-60 up front to eliminate any Death Wobble.
Might be a "tweener and mutt" Greaser, but it sounds pretty cool. Do you have pics posted up anywhere for us to check out?

Reason I brought up that comment you made about avoiding Death Wobble with a trackbar, it does not always work that way. In fact, some of the most prone-to-death-wobble vehicles around happen to have trackbars!
While I have nothing against adding one if needed, trackbars/panhard bars themselves do not eliminate the dreaded DW's. Otherwise Broncos and YJ and TJ and JK Wranglers and Dodge and earlier F250/350 trucks would never have the problem. All have trackbars and all can and do suffer from Death Wobbles when the other conditions are right.
Of course, it's not just with trackbars either. My first Death Wobble experience (before we coined the phrase even) was in a '67 Buick. My second was in my '71 Bronco and subsequent ones were with Broncos as well.
Maybe you meant leaf spring vehicles with trackbars, rather than coil and radius arm trucks like F150's and Broncos and Jeeps, but that's why I mention the YJ's and the leaf-spring F250's and 350's in the mix..

Anyway, love to see how you put it all together sometime. Post up some pics if you haven't already.

Thanks

Paul
 
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Old May 12, 2022 | 09:05 PM
  #25  
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Well it looks like a good call on that ES3625 stud taper, from what I could tell it's more like 9 degrees. It popped right out of the pitman arm after I took off the castle nut, whereas usually I have to persuade them out with a mallet. Unfortunately that pretty well exhausts the list of Moog parts in a 1.0-18 thread that I can find. It would be a lot more help if they published the full information about each, i.e. minimum and maximum diameter and length of taper.

edit: the only other part I can find which may work is the ES3247RT assuming it has the same dimension as the ES3247 in the old catalog I turned up, which is the same as the ES444L just with righthand threads. At this point I'm a little gun shy to buy one and try it out though, if I remember I will try to call Moog and see if they can provide additional specs.
 
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Old May 12, 2022 | 10:06 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by 1TonBasecamp
Might be a "tweener and mutt" Greaser, but it sounds pretty cool. Do you have pics posted up anywhere for us to check out?

Reason I brought up that comment you made about avoiding Death Wobble with a trackbar, it does not always work that way. In fact, some of the most prone-to-death-wobble vehicles around happen to have trackbars!
While I have nothing against adding one if needed, trackbars/panhard bars themselves do not eliminate the dreaded DW's. Otherwise Broncos and YJ and TJ and JK Wranglers and Dodge and earlier F250/350 trucks would never have the problem. All have trackbars and all can and do suffer from Death Wobbles when the other conditions are right.
Of course, it's not just with trackbars either. My first Death Wobble experience (before we coined the phrase even) was in a '67 Buick. My second was in my '71 Bronco and subsequent ones were with Broncos as well.
Maybe you meant leaf spring vehicles with trackbars, rather than coil and radius arm trucks like F150's and Broncos and Jeeps, but that's why I mention the YJ's and the leaf-spring F250's and 350's in the mix..

Anyway, love to see how you put it all together sometime. Post up some pics if you haven't already.

Thanks
Paul
If it is ok with @moneypit ford I would be happy to add a picture.
Now, don't laugh at my "construction" practices because I use what I can find which will work for the task:


Above photo showing the power steering box and home-built adapter plate. The adapter plate bolts thru spools and rests against the spool plate which is welded to the lip of the frame rail.
The steering box is sourced from a '93 2wd Ford pickup because they are Ford Corp boxes and cheap to purchase like $40.
Can't remember what I sourced the drag-link out of, but it is still giving me good service since 1998.
Behind the drag-link is the Panhard rod sourced from a '79 full sized Bronco. Used the Bronco frame mounts and modified the spring plate to accept the other end.
Before the panhard rod, I was zipping up the interstate at 65 and hit a badger hole I didn't see, and all fenders were flapping !
Haven't had any more death-wobble experiences since attaching the pan-hard.


Above photo: _ _ _ Looking up her skirt. grinning.
You can see here how my cross-over linkage sits, being pretty parallel. Nice Legs right !
On the passenger side sits a high-steer arm from DynaTrac mounted to the king-pin D-60 knuckle.
Remember: this was a 2wd pickup before i got my grubbies on it.
Looking close, you can see the front spring hanger crossmember and springs and frame brackets all from a highboy '76 donor.
The balanced and ported 300-inline six banger I call my "Mini Cummins Gasser" hahaha
Yes, the 300 is running Clifford 4-bbl intake and exhaust headers w/ Clevite early grind cam, and Holley 600 universal.
 
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Old May 12, 2022 | 11:36 PM
  #27  
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Pics are always a good addition!
 
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Old May 13, 2022 | 08:07 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Hyperbole
At this point I'm a little gun shy to buy one and try it out though, if I remember I will try to call Moog and see if they can provide additional specs.
I have a connection, I may even be able to get
the tech drawing for it. Let me see what I can find.
 
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Old May 13, 2022 | 09:13 AM
  #29  
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I just got off the phone with Moog, the ES3247RT is a 7.15 degree taper with a minimum diameter of 0.594" and maximum of 0.703" which should give a taper length of ~0.87" same as the ES444L. So combined with the ES2012S and ES444L that'd be an adjustable range of 13.5" - 16".
 
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Old May 13, 2022 | 10:51 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Hyperbole
I just got off the phone with Moog, the ES3247RT is a 7.15 degree taper with a minimum diameter of 0.594" and maximum of 0.703" which should give a taper length of ~0.87" same as the ES444L. So combined with the ES2012S and ES444L that'd be an adjustable range of 13.5" - 16".
great! Glad they were able to get you squared away on the tech line
 
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