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Been restoring my '74 F-100 4x4 for a couple years now. The cab and front clip is still off the frame, but expected to be together (hopefully) by winter 2022.
Anyways, as things are coming together, I went to get my new tires and rims mounted / balanced today and came across this problem.... Here's the details:
June 2021: Bought 4 new 15x8 US Mag rims (5 slot) U101 from Wildhorses4x4.com.
August 2021: Bought 4 new BF Goodrich Terrain T/A KO2 Tires, 33x10.5R15 from Amazon.com.
They have all been stored in a climate controlled basement since purchase.
Loaded everything up on this frigid morning and set sail for the local tire shop to have the work done.
I was expecting a glorious sight to be seen when those wheels rolled out the shop door, but what I got was a ugly mess.
When they were done balancing the new wheel assemblies, this is how they balanced out:
Wheel #1- 16 Weights x .25oz = 4oz total
Wheel #2- 16 Weights x .25oz = 4oz total.
Wheel #3- 32 Weights x .25oz = 8oz total.
Wheel #4- 79 Weights x .25oz = 19.75oz total.
There's 16 weights on Tire #1 & 2. That seems a bit excessive.... But I would think that's OK seeing how big and heavy (50.7 lbs.) the tires are......(probably ok?)
Wheel #3 has 32 weights, that seems unacceptable.
Wheel #4 had 79 weights and I think that is completely- and totally unacceptable.
The rims are precision CNC machined, I would not believe they caused this.
There's so many weights on the back of the rims it seems almost cartoonish.... I just never seen anything like that before, how can they even all stay stuck on?
The Amazon return window closed 30 days after purchase, so that's a no go on that.
BF Goodrich has a 6 year warranty on Workmanship and Materials, so I contacted them via e-mail just now, and relayed that I wanted #3 & #4 replaced.
I'll hopefully hear back from them.
So there 'ya have it....
I'm curious what you guys think about all the weights required to balance these tires... and what would you do if this happened to you?
This cant be normal or useable can it?
Any wheel experts out there?
Coincidentally, some lessons were learned:
#1 Do not buy tires from non tire specialty shops online.
#2 If you buy unmounted tires online, mount & balance them quickly.
#3 Do not buy tires from non tire specialty shops online.
I would try another tire shop before giving up hope. That seems absurd. If the second shop comes to the same conclusion, maybe ask about balancing beads?
First off you don't weight 180 degrees apart that's the biggest problem all you're doing is countering the weight you just applied with more weights. you need to get someone who knows what they're doing this must have been the new guy's first day.
They just "dynamic-balanced" them heavy tires. Heavy tires take weight that light weight tires seldom need. You can set some machines to place the weights behind the spokes for the front or face side, and either lip or offset in the wheel edge for the back side of the combo. I do the same thing when I balance with stick on weights on wheels that I don't want ... or can't use clip on weights on the face. Sometimes I use a supplement load of Airsoft hard plastic .22 cal BBs. I have used the BBs alone on smaller tires.
"Static balancing" ... aka: "bubble balancing" ... is an alternative I no longer use.
Only weights I see 180 degrees apart up there are some placed opposite each other on inside versus outside. If a tire has a heavy spot in a sidewall, speed will make it want to rotate with a wobble, this is how you balance it out.
X2 on get another guy at that tire shop to try it, or get another tire shop to do them. If you suspect the rim, have them run it on the machine without the tire to see what is going on. I am sure it is fine, but to just check that block. Then X3 on dlburch's idea to try to move/relocate the tire in relation to the current rim position to try and get less weight needed.
That tire size is not really a large enough tire to warrant going to balance beads. NOT air soft pellets either, but actual tire balance beads. Like real small beads that are almost like silica sand. Quality tire shops know what and how to do balance beads, it is common on tractor trailer steer tires. And them large goofy rim, low profile tires that mall crawlers have that causes them to have to avoiding parking lot curbs and speed bumps. Woops.
Balancing on both sides is optional. in a perfect world it's nice but tires like this it's hard to do unless you use the old clip on weights which I do sometimes.
Balancing 180, or 170 degrees apart is useless. if you need 4 oz to balance don't put 8 oz 180 degrees from it then make it 12oz to balance it out.
I've had dozens of sets of this type of tire including mostly BFG's and it's not uncommon at all to need a bit of weight on them. but nothing that approaches this .
that said, if they run out smooth who cares the weight isn't going to hurt anything.
i still work at a tire shop-I have the same wheel with 31x10.50x15 cooper stt pro on then I don't worry much about, weight especially 4oz. Your tire shop should set up your machine so it runs weight on the inner edge of wheel and the width being on the backside of wheel, BFG's tend to balance a little heavy but nothing I would worry about. Agood tire tech should be able to do this or use balance beads. I have been in the tire/automotive parts and service for 25 years. I would have you come to our shop if you were in this area.
X2 on get another guy at that tire shop to try it, or get another tire shop to do them. If you suspect the rim, have them run it on the machine without the tire to see what is going on. I am sure it is fine, but to just check that block. Then X3 on dlburch's idea to try to move/relocate the tire in relation to the current rim position to try and get less weight needed.
That tire size is not really a large enough tire to warrant going to balance beads. NOT air soft pellets either, but actual tire balance beads. Like real small beads that are almost like silica sand. Quality tire shops know what and how to do balance beads, it is common on tractor trailer steer tires. And them large goofy rim, low profile tires that mall crawlers have that causes them to have to avoiding parking lot curbs and speed bumps. Woops.
That tire size is not really a large enough tire to warrant going to balance beads. NOT air soft pellets either, but actual tire balance beads.
I wonder why? 8 ounces of air soft BBs weigh the same as 8 ounces of actual tire balance beads, they do not absorb moisture, do not clump & they don't break down, and the physics that cause the actual tire balance beads to balance are the same for the air soft BBs. They move just as freely with no damage to tire interiors either. They fact that they refuse to go in via the tire valve stem is the only difference ... well, besides costs. I just weigh them with a postage scale and pour them in the tire bead to rim before inflation, I use the "balance beads chart" as a minimum guideline. You can put too few in, but you'll not likely put too many in. They're reusable as well, I vacuum mine into a clean container, then rinse well in a colander bowl, let I them dry before putting them back in the original jug until needed again. All I use in MC tires and some car tires.
Originally Posted by 440 sixpack
Balancing 180, or 170 degrees apart is useless. if you need 4 oz to balance don't put 8 oz 180 degrees from it then make it 12oz to balance it out. .
That would be true if they were placed in the same rotational plane ... but they aren't in those pics, they are in different rotational planes, doubtlessly to cure a wobble the machine detected.
Go to a shop that uses a Hunter Road Force balancer.and knows how to use it.Insist on the use of a lug centric wheel adapter.I bought a set of tires from a Ford dealer that had a bunch of weights on the wheels like yours.Vibration city! Back to ford,said 1 tire was bad,rebalanced,actually worse than before. Back again,said it was all they could do.Ended up going to Discount Tire that had the equipment mentioned.Hardly any weights,no vibration.It's a lot of work to do this correctly and a lot of tire guys don't want to do it.
When a wheel is made, whether cnc machined, cast, welded up, whatever, it is going to have a heavy & light side, not be in perfect balance. Let's say the valve stem hole is drilled on the heavy side.
When a tire is made, it is going to have a heavy & light side, not be in perfect balance. Let's say the factory puts a small yellow colored dot on the sidewall on the light side.
When the tire is mounted, you line the dot on the sidewall up with the valve stem hole or within 20 degrees to either side of it. This helps to cancel out the imbalance between the wheel & tire, requiring less weight to get a good balance.
No tire jockey at a shop knows this, or does this. I've come across one guy that has been working in a tire shop for 40 years that mounts tires like this, a guy that is the best mechanic I have ever seen that mounts tires like this, & one other guy. No one else does this. This way of mounting tires is old school, I had a service manual from a 1920's Ford that detailed this way to mount tires.
Look at new cars or trucks on the lot, look for the dots on the sidewalls. Most of the time the yellow dots will be close to the valve stem, sometimes not. Think about it: get the wheel tire combo close to balanced by matching them, it will take less time, less money for weights to balance the combo. Time is money on the assembly line, multiply 1 fewer wheel weight by millions of tire wheel combos per year. You can see why the factory would want to do this.
If you get the heavy side of the tire on the heavy side of the wheel, you can get the need for lots of weights to balance the tire wheel assembly. Throw the tire wheel combo together at random, & you might get lucky & not need much weight.
I can't see any dots on the front picture of the tire you posted, look close, they may be there. Check 'em all, see if you can find any.
If they were any good they would've rotated the tires on the rims to get as close to balanced as possible before adding weights. That's one of the things done with road force balancing
It seems like recently, last year or two, I've been reading more stories about BFG tires and balancing issues where people had to get multiple replacements before getting one that would balance right.
When a wheel is made, whether cnc machined, cast, welded up, whatever, it is going to have a heavy & light side, not be in perfect balance. Let's say the valve stem hole is drilled on the heavy side.
When a tire is made, it is going to have a heavy & light side, not be in perfect balance. Let's say the factory puts a small colored dot on the sidewall on the light side.
When the tire is mounted, you line the dot on the sidewall up with the valve stem hole or within 20 degrees to either side of it. This helps to cancel out the imbalance between the wheel & tire, requiring less weight to get a good balance.
No tire jockey at a shop knows this, or does this. I've come across one guy that has been working in a tire shop for 40 years that mounts tires like this, a guy that is the best mechanic I have ever seen that mounts tires like this, & one other guy. No one else does this. This way of mounting tires is old school, I had a service manual from a 1920's Ford that detailed this way to mount tires.
Look at new cars or trucks on the lot, look for the dots on the sidewalls. Most of the time the dots will be close to the valve stem, sometimes not. Think about it: get the wheel tire combo close to balanced by matching them, it will take less time, less money for weights to balance the combo. Time is money on the assembly line, multiply 1 fewer wheel weight by millions of tire wheel combos per year. You can see why the factory would want to do this.
If you get the heavy side of the tire on the heavy side of the wheel, you can get the need for lots of weights to balance the tire wheel assembly. Throw the tire wheel combo together at random, & you might get lucky & not need much weight.
I can't see any dots on the front picture of the tire you posted, look close, they may be there. Check 'em all, see if you can find any.
Informative post, I now remember hearing about this years ago.
I think i see a red dot on the first picture of tire#2, at about the 4 o'clock position. It might just be a random mark from editing?
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