180CC single shot injector question
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 920
Likes: 7
From: Mazon, IL
180CC single shot injector question
Recently installed some FFD 180cc Single shot injectors, then installed a KC Turbos stage 1 turbo. I sent my DP Tuner in to Jody to get the tunes redone for the single shots.
I've never had a problem starting in the cold, and technically, still don't, but here's what happens.
In any tune, when I crank to start, it will fire for a second, then die. It will do that, presumably forever. I quit trying after about 10 times.
If I set the tune to fast idle right off the bat, it will fire right up.
Any insight??
I've never had a problem starting in the cold, and technically, still don't, but here's what happens.
In any tune, when I crank to start, it will fire for a second, then die. It will do that, presumably forever. I quit trying after about 10 times.
If I set the tune to fast idle right off the bat, it will fire right up.
Any insight??
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,352
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From: Lake Hartwell, GA
Remove the chip and try it with a 100% stock PCM. The injectors should start and idle just fine. The stock tuning on single shot injectors changes the accelerator to an on/off switch instead of a dimmer.
Any difference if the block heater is plugged in for 2+ hours prior to starting?
You sure the fuel is not gelled up?
You sure the GPR and GP's are functioning properly?
Is there oil and fuel in the systems?
Battery voltage at rest and cranking?
Keep us updated.
Any difference if the block heater is plugged in for 2+ hours prior to starting?
You sure the fuel is not gelled up?
You sure the GPR and GP's are functioning properly?
Is there oil and fuel in the systems?
Battery voltage at rest and cranking?
Keep us updated.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 920
Likes: 7
From: Mazon, IL
Fuel and Oil are good. Doubtful on the fuel gelling. Have never had that problem before in much colder temperatures. Plus, once I set the tuner at high idle, it starts and runs. GPs are new, and the relay is working. Batteries are strong and fully charged. I'll try to get the tuner pulled tonight and see what happens. I'll pull it while the truck is outside so it will stay nice and cold.
I was wondering if the fuel pressure isn't too low. There weren't supposed to be any issues like that with the stock nozzle injectors.
There is one more thing though. It runs fine in all "added power" tunes, and from idle, in neutral, it revs up nice and smooth, but when I put it into the stock tune, or I think Jody called it Modified stock, it kinda boggs down when I rev it up
I was wondering if the fuel pressure isn't too low. There weren't supposed to be any issues like that with the stock nozzle injectors.
There is one more thing though. It runs fine in all "added power" tunes, and from idle, in neutral, it revs up nice and smooth, but when I put it into the stock tune, or I think Jody called it Modified stock, it kinda boggs down when I rev it up
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,352
Likes: 5,946
From: Lake Hartwell, GA
If it is not mechanical failure of some sort poking around, it must be the injectors or tuning. What is that saying "last in is first suspect". Something like that...
The link below may be of some use to you if the problem persists when the chip is removed.
The link below may be of some use to you if the problem persists when the chip is removed.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 920
Likes: 7
From: Mazon, IL
Cool. Thanks. I'll try that, but probably won't be until I get the truck back from getting the new manifolds. But I will try the block heater in a bit and try to do the tuner tonight
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,271
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From: Las Cruces New Mexico
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 920
Likes: 7
From: Mazon, IL
In the morning we should be 9° so I'll try to fire it up in the morning, and if it's the same, I'll pull the chip and try, before I plug it in. I'll also try to check fuel pressure. Just busy as hell at work, and gotta take it in for manifolds sat morning, so I'm gonna do what I can before i take it in.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: San Diego, CA
My vote is the tunes (although stranger things have happened). If it starts and idles in one of the tunes it seems like all the systems are working and supplying enough fluid pressure(s) to support minimum operation.
Do you have an invoice showing exactly what tunes were burned to your chip? Even so there's always a chance that you didn't get the right tunes (nobody's perfect) so I would call them to confirm. They should have an electronic trail of exactly what was loaded onto your chip to validate if you have the correct tunes.
Have you been able to drive it yet with the new sticks and tunes or are you stuck at start/idle?
As Sous mentioned it should start and run with the OEM programming in the PCM. I remember @Tugly saying a (long) while back that his truck ran on single shots with stock tuning, albeit erratically.
Do you have an invoice showing exactly what tunes were burned to your chip? Even so there's always a chance that you didn't get the right tunes (nobody's perfect) so I would call them to confirm. They should have an electronic trail of exactly what was loaded onto your chip to validate if you have the correct tunes.
Have you been able to drive it yet with the new sticks and tunes or are you stuck at start/idle?
As Sous mentioned it should start and run with the OEM programming in the PCM. I remember @Tugly saying a (long) while back that his truck ran on single shots with stock tuning, albeit erratically.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 920
Likes: 7
From: Mazon, IL
Yeah, it runs fine, so far as I know with the little bit I've driven it. I did get on it once, and got over 25 psi of boost. But until the exhaust manifolds get replaced, I didn't want to chance messing up the up pipes. At this point, the only issue is starting, and that is only when its cold. I have to do some actual work at work for a while this morning, then I'm gonna go out and see what happens. It's a balmy 8 degrees out there, so I should be at the best conditions to show the problems
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,092
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From: San Diego, CA
What is the "normal tune"? Is that the OEM PCM tune or a single shot tune? I don't see any display on the DP Tuner selector. Did you pull the chip off the PCM for the start?
It definitely wants to fire so you know the PCM and IDM are talking (plus you said you got it running in the high idle tune) so I'd rule out the starting requirements (engine 100 RPM, ICP 500 psi, PW 0.6 ms, and 7-10 VDC)
I am far from an expert compared to others but it sounds like the moment it fires the injectors stop. Can you monitor PW? That's the first thing I'd look at if I was sitting in my driveway with my wife asking me "what's wrong with your truck this time?" (I don't miss those days
)
It definitely wants to fire so you know the PCM and IDM are talking (plus you said you got it running in the high idle tune) so I'd rule out the starting requirements (engine 100 RPM, ICP 500 psi, PW 0.6 ms, and 7-10 VDC)
I am far from an expert compared to others but it sounds like the moment it fires the injectors stop. Can you monitor PW? That's the first thing I'd look at if I was sitting in my driveway with my wife asking me "what's wrong with your truck this time?" (I don't miss those days
)
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
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From: Puget Sound
My vote is the tunes (although stranger things have happened). If it starts and idles in one of the tunes it seems like all the systems are working and supplying enough fluid pressure(s) to support minimum operation... ...As Sous mentioned it should start and run with the OEM programming in the PCM. I remember @Tugly saying a (long) while back that his truck ran on single shots with stock tuning, albeit erratically.
The OP problem is likely tuning. It happens.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,352
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From: Lake Hartwell, GA
When my "event" happened, I was forced to pull the chip 400 miles from home. I ran 160/100 single-shot injectors at the time, so the "throttle" was an on/off switch during rush hour through Portland, OR. Major freaking suckage, but the truck didn't hint at stalling. Idle was fine... but the truck sure Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Banged its way down the tach until it reached it.
Agreed and looking forward to the update once the chip has been removed from the PCM.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 920
Likes: 7
From: Mazon, IL
OK, so far as my last post, the "normal tune" was 80 econ.
Now for the new stuff. I'm again gonna try to attach some short videos. Pulled the chip and it fired right up. Didn't try to do anything else. It fired up and I took a video, and I put it all back together. So far as the videos go, there should be one that shows it firing without the tuner, one with it trying to fire set at 80 econ, one with it starting in high idle, and one with the smoke still pouring out after 5 min of running. which was the main reason for the injector swap. Part of the smoke im' assuming it due to the fact that the exhaust is still full of oil from the turbo blow up.
Now for the new stuff. I'm again gonna try to attach some short videos. Pulled the chip and it fired right up. Didn't try to do anything else. It fired up and I took a video, and I put it all back together. So far as the videos go, there should be one that shows it firing without the tuner, one with it trying to fire set at 80 econ, one with it starting in high idle, and one with the smoke still pouring out after 5 min of running. which was the main reason for the injector swap. Part of the smoke im' assuming it due to the fact that the exhaust is still full of oil from the turbo blow up.