Please Help! Worst Startup Ever....

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Jan 7, 2022 | 03:04 PM

UKPR1

Thread Starter

Mountain Pass

Joined: Oct 2020

Posts: 214

Likes: 8

Please Help! Worst Startup Ever....

So what should be the proudest moment in any engine rebuild, turn into the most miserable experience.

In a nutshell, the following issues happened that probably provide clues:

Once the fuel bowls filled, the engine started with some dificulty to keep it running - had to keep my foot on the accelerator a little to maintain the RPMs. My carb was rebuilt by a builder who sent me a video of the carb running, so I know it runs. May still need minor adjustment but I never got to that point.
We were running headers only without being connected up to the exhausts.
I was running one of those radiator funnels to maintain a head of water on the radiator. Once it ran, I'm assuming when the thermostat opened, there was a huge explosion of water out of the funnel and water belched all over the engine. I took the funnel off and put the radiator cap back on.
The engine ran hot. So hot that:
- The collectors at the end of the headers glowed red
- The high temp RTV that Sanderson Headers recommends you use instead of gaskets melted and blew out (see the videos - that's the red stuff flapping around
- The top radiator hose remained too hot to touch 30 minutes after the engine was shut off. The bottom hose was comfortable to touch and even the headers.
- The clamp on the #1 plug for the timing light melted and failed to read any inductance so we were blind when it came to timing.
- The engine was run for a total of 5 minutes (maybe) before we shut it down - defeated - and called it a day. The temp gauge in the cab registered the 1/2 way mark.
On startup only, the carb shot huge fireballs out of the barrels over the course of 7 or 8 startups to get the engine running
Fuel pressure seemed to settle at 3 or 4 psi
The engine seemed happiest to start when the distributer was rotated clockwise but the engine would want to splutter and stall if the distributor turned more than a few degrees in either direction once the engine was running. The max we were able to get the vacuum gauge up to was about 18 mg Hg.

What a punch in the *****. I feel completely deflated and defeated. I don't know where to start - actually replacing the blown out RTV on the headers has to be my first job. Here are some video clips:

Please help!

Geoff

Attached Files

IMG_0232-compressed.MOV (3.34 MB, 69 views)

IMG_0233-compressed.MOV (1.20 MB, 25 views)

IMG_0234-compressed.MOV (1.19 MB, 34 views)

IMG_0235-compressed.MOV (2.04 MB, 23 views)

Jan 7, 2022 | 06:41 PM

cbrown9064

Fleet Mechanic

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 1,252

Likes: 113

From: Mandan, ND

You didn't adjust/tune carb, so why are you surprised it didn't run right? Adjust carb.

Set timing at 10 BTDC as a start. You should be able to eyeball it.

You either have the t-stat installed backwards or had an air lock. Air bubble/block after new motor totally normal. You needed to add water. Add water and try again. Once the stat opens the water level will drop...start adding.

I doubt you did any damage. Get some water or coolant in it, adjust timing and be ready to mess with carb.

Follow cam manufacturers break in procedure. If they want 2000 rpms for 20 minutes, get some help to adjust carb and add water so you spend little time idling.

BTW, back fires from carb are probably a combo of timing and too lean idle.

Jan 7, 2022 | 07:54 PM

UKPR1

Thread Starter

Mountain Pass

Joined: Oct 2020

Posts: 214

Likes: 8

The carb rebuilder sent me a video of my carb running on his engine...it didn't occur to me that I should have checked the settings regardless. I'll definitely check it and adjust to a good startup mixture. Same for timing - admittedly, it was at 0 degrees TDC and I neglected to advance it prior to startup, thinking I could do it once it was somewhat idling. I'm just miffed that I have to take the headers off and replace the RTV that is now in shreds all over the engine bay - they were a B@#(H to get in...I can't imagine the fun I'll have doing a R&R on those. Oh well...if I'm going to dumb, I gotta be tough, I guess. Just glad I didn't damage the engine - hopefully. I also think that I'm going to pull the thermostat and run it without it and take it out of the equation. I live in Florida so I have ambient temps on my side.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Geoff

Jan 8, 2022 | 10:16 AM

lilorbie

Laughing Gas

Joined: Feb 2016

Posts: 1,052

Likes: 102

From: The Hotel California

Some thing else that you might want to check just in case. Is the distributor not 180 deg. out.

Jan 8, 2022 | 01:21 PM

Obscure69

Laughing Gas

Joined: Jun 2016

Posts: 892

Likes: 233

From: Kattarp, Helsingborg, Swe

yeah, the initial fire-ball probably means your distributor is not set in correctly, so something is firing when a valve is open, which should never happen... that might also account for the hot exhaust fumes, since there could be quite a bit of un-combusted fuel going out into the headers, and igniting there instead of in the cylinders... just my 2 cents. Just get in there again, double- and triple check everything. Good Luck!

Jan 8, 2022 | 02:54 PM

UKPR1

Thread Starter

Mountain Pass

Joined: Oct 2020

Posts: 214

Likes: 8

Yep - I'll be checking out the timing tomorrow. I used a sparkplug whistle to make sure that I set the dizzy when the whistling stopped (TDC), so I don't think I got it wrong, but who knows. Best insurance is to do it again and see what I've got. But the fuel being burnt in the headers kinda makes sense. I found that the idle mixture was set to 2-3/4 turns out, so I don't know if that equates to a super-rich condition wherein there would be unburned fuel. Haven't pulled the plugs as yet, just the passenger side header - no soot, just a light film of ash inside.

Thanks and I'll keep updating with what I find.

Geoff

Jan 8, 2022 | 10:17 PM

kenny nunez

Cargo Master

Joined: Oct 2011

Posts: 2,238

Likes: 299

From: Kenner,La.

Worse start up.

You did not say which carburetor you have, however most Ford/ Holley carburetors are happy at 1.5 turns out from lightly seated. If the distributor is set in the engine correctly the vacuum advance should be facing almost straight ahead. That way there is enough room to set the timing. With the #1 at TDC do the timing marks on the balancer line up with the pointer? Are the points set correctly?
To get the base timing remove the spark plugs and re attach them to the wires and lay them on the manifold, with the timing light on the #1 wire have someone spin the engine and set the timing then lock the distributor.
As said before, you had a steam pocket that caused the eruption.

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Jan 9, 2022 | 03:42 PM

UKPR1

Thread Starter

Mountain Pass

Joined: Oct 2020

Posts: 214

Likes: 8

Kenny,

Hope all is well - long time no speak! The carb is an Edelbrock 1405. The vacuum nipple on the advance was previous at around the 6:30 or 7 o'clock position, so that sounds about right. COVID testing today prevented me from checking my timing including the firing order (thanks Erik!), but I can probably get back to my check tomorrow. I'll keep you posted.

Geoff