You're money might be better spent on improving ICP for that additional power - getting the fuel in early (at the pressure the PCM is calling for) should help with EGTs, and make the MST work for you. Instead of a stage 1 turbo, consider swapping out the T500 (17* swashplate) for a CNC stage 2 HPOP (20* swashplate), especially if you stay with split-shot injectors. That's what I would have done, had I not received a great deal from Eswift on an Adrenaline (18.5* swashplate).

After the HPOP, consider switching to the Hydra, and then, eventually, fresh injectors. That said, don't let me spend your money where you don't want to go.

EDIT: let me retract some of this - your ICP with the rebuilt T500 is pretty good. I'd go for a tune change next. Before pulling the trigger on a turbo. I agree with Eric.

 

Cool. I'm headed to the barn right now, Hydra in hand...

Mark

 

As a person that went up that pass last year towing 10k give or take with my OBS with my sig mods and 3.55's, I can tell you that is one hard steep pass, my truck did ok, I had all the power to spare the problem was EGT's, part of the problem was I have a 6.0 kitty on there, and my tranny was going crazy between gears because of my tuner, but my egts would peak iirc 1350°
I think the ported housing you have is part of your problem, I had a D66 style turbo on my truck with a 1.0 exhaust housing and my truck hated towing with that turbo, egts were out of control even with stock programming while towing, empty it was a beast, I changed it back to the stock GTP38 with my SPT 5x5 billet wheel and all of that disappeared. Foot to the floor egts wouldn't go over 1250 on my hot tunes with out the 6.0 kitty
Before going into bigger turbo etc, I would install the stock exhaust exducer wheel, stock compressor wheel along with the factory housing and see what that does.

 

160/30 and a kc300x stage 1 would get you a very good bump in useable power.

​​​​​​You are seeing good boost with your current setup so a tweaking the existing turbo may not do a whole lot.

The adrenaline to cncfab stage 2 swap I did(bwst now has the adrenaline) really only gained any benifit in a race tune, or super heavy work in a 80 tune towing. The adrenaline was def adequate, it was a good comparison for me for learning purposes. I would say your t500 should be plenty.

Tuning changes may help. Sometimes we just expect a lot from these old dinosaurs too :-)

My work tuck recently swapped back to a stock turbo from a 363/68 .91 borgwarner, I have bot driven it yet (zf6 with 180/30) at some point I want to them try a kc300x stage 1, for a full comparison of the 3 turbos.

 

I’m reading through this and ready to post up about the tunes. Then keep reading and see you guys have already gotten there. According to SSJ it makes a huge difference considering what you’re using now. I’m anxious to hear the results.

I have no experience in high elevation so I’ll try keep my turbo opinions quiet. I would definitely call KC to discuss all the goals and such before hitting the buy button. They will be the best to recommend what works best for your specific needs.

I don’t think I would get rid of the turbine. The KC turbine has a good history of lowering EGTs. If anything you may consider going to a normal compressor housing with the matched KC billet wheel or the normal billet one from Riffraff as those have proven to be a good combination. Those seem to be your only real deviation from what others run with satisfactory (at least in low lands) results.

 

Your text I highlighted struck a nerve. You are spot on.

Hydra is in, and it starts without errors, flashing THEFT light, etc. That's a win, so far. I'll test drive in the morning. I need a bit of an attitude adjustment, as I'm already lacking confidence in the tuning I have.

Mind if I go on a bit of a rant? It's common here for folks to recommend a Hydra, and I see it a lot in signatures. That's not what matters!! It's like saying, "Get an Intel chip". To run what? DOS3.3? Windows 11? Linux? IOS? The functionality and user experience are dramatically different between those options, and it's the functionality and experience that matters. Not what hardware lies beneath the code. [/rant] I feel better now...

I mention this because my fear is that, unlike in the PC world, there really isn't much difference between the software (tuning) options we have, and the one(s) I'm trading for may not be as good as what I've had. Like I said - I need an attitude adjustment.

Thanks for everyone's help!! More to come tomorrow.

Mark

 

Most of todays tuners doesn't play along with DP tuner platform..?

 

None do, as far as I know, and vice versa. That's a pain, but it's been that way forever. My little tantrum was referencing the fact I'm often told "get a Hydra", when it's the tunes on it that make all the difference. Maybe all the tuners - and tunes- really are pretty much the same.

Anyway, I don't want to derail a discussion that's been really helpful.

Test drive after coffee...

Mark

 

Yes, it's the tunes that matter. The hydra just gets us to the platform supported by several tuners.

I don't have experience with more than PHP tunes and DP tunes at this point. For you, I'm hopeful the PHP 40HP tow tune will work with that MST and get you the power you need without the EGT monitoring requirement, since the DP version of this tune was not working correctly.

Eric's dinosaur/expectation comment rings true for me as well. It's helpful to hear that once in a while. For what they are, these trucks do a helluva good job, are affordable (depending on the level of PMS - yeah FTN, I'm talkin' to you...I have air horn envy) and are fun to drive.

 

{Cracking knuckles}
1. Negligible pressure difference between hot and cold side of intercooler - you would need a restriction in the CAC system to arrive at a significant difference. Once you get in range of Stinky's (R.I.P.) breath (40-42 PSI boost), then yeah... you might see something... if you have very accurate sensors... and you log both at a high sampling rate. Saying that - we're using a nit comb on 7,500 pounds of steel, rubber, and glass. What's next?

2. Oh yeah... allegedly negligible difference in tunes. I've driven tunes from 4 different programmers, and more "custom" tunes than I dare count. There is absolutely, positively a gargantuan (courtesy of Kill Bill) difference between programmers and the programs they install on the chips. You might have a Black Mamba or a Rattler on your chip, when you really wanted an Anaconda or a Boa. The DP chip gives you just one guy - period. Almost everybody else, from the crack-head with a keyboard to the Swami of Seven Point Three, uses the Hydra format. Hydra automatically comes with a large library of tunes (from Bill - different Bill... the Hydra developer) to try out on your rig, and they all give your truck a different attitude. From there... you can pick and choose your guy from a catalog, for the most part.

Last I checked, there are still a few holdouts that use the TS 6 chip... but I'm mot sure anymore.

Me? After all my experiences? Two guys are qualified to touch my tunes, and I haven't heard anything from the transmission guru in a while - that leaves Cody (my first choice anyway). My stuff has been working so nice that I've been a ghost here.

 

How did the test drive go? What tunes did you play with? How was the coffee?

 

Hey Jeff, and thanks for following up. The coffee was great, but that goes without saying...

I drove about 100 miles that day, and have put another 100 or so on it since then. The DD driver tunes I tried - a 65 and an 80 - were OK. No question the 80 was much less smoky than my older ones, but it seemed like a "cooler" tune, in general. It did set the SES light on one hard acceleration run, and that looked to be caused by a P0478 (high EBP) that can presumably be turned off. Shifting on the DD tunes was fine. A little less aggressive than I'm used to, but OK.

I've not towed, but did drive around in the tow tunes - a 40 and an 80, the latter of which I assume will be too hot for my altitude. The transmission behavior was exactly the same as the DD behavior, which was both expected, and disappointing, as I ran into the same thing when I tried to move to a Hydra years ago. The tuner is working on updates, which I expected yesterday. In the meantime, I'm exploring other options, and am most hopeful they'll nail it.

One thing I did notice, and ask to have corrected, was a noisy idle, that I think is caused by needlessly high ICP at idle. This tuner, and my last one, and the one I tried years ago, all seem to have the warm engine idle in the high 500's, when a stock motor will idle in the high 400's. Other than the racket, is there any reason why a higher ICP at idle is a good thing? I can't think of one.

One hardware difference between the Hydra and my old one is the behavior of the no-start feature. The old one is completely stealthy - it just doesn't start - but easy to move to an active tune. The Hydra makes it obvious something is going on - lots of lights - and is much more involved to get to a place where the truck will start. I suppose the latter is a feature - security is often inversely related to convenience - but causes a problem if I drop dead on a bike ride, and my wife has to start the truck. (Hey, I'm old. I think about these things.)

More to come, as tunes are updated, and new ones received.

Mark

 

I notice you say a tuner is working on revisions. Have you tried the tunes from the free PHP library? I find them to be very good for my use. Of course each strategy probably has a bit of its own nuances.

You can actually mix files from different tuners as long as they are the same strategy. The PHP library has a dead pedal tune, no start (which doesn’t say “nS” on the display), and a whisper tune. So you may be able to fill some voids with those free tunes. My no start doesn’t have any flashing lights. But I do think it would be easy enough to see the display shining brightly saying “hey touch these buttons.”

You mention idle IPC. I noticed the other day that the “whisper” tune actually had higher ICP than the normal tune. My guess is he is boosting the ICP then delaying the start of injection to compensate. Just a complete guess though. The reason I mention it is because higher ICP may not be directly the source of more noise.

Other than the whisper tune all the PHP files for my strategy appear to have the same idle ICP. Not so for the TW tunes. They seems to vary wildly. The Economy tune is much quieter than the rest but most others are a lot noisier and smokier than the PHP.

 

Thanks man. I tried the PHP tunes years ago, but not yet this time. I'm not sure if I'm picky, spoiled, or both, but I think tow tunes ought to have different transmission behavior than DD tunes, and I recall the PHP ones being the same. If I'm towing with a stick, I shift a little later, keep my foot off the clutch pedal unless I'm shifting, and use the transmission to help me control speeds on the downhill. With an auto, that would translate to shifting later on upshifts, and downshifting as speeds decrease, locking the torque converter more aggressively than when just driving, and leveraging the coast clutch in 1-3. Extra credit if a tow-based decel tune will flip the EBPV on. Turning OD off will handle the CC part, but the rest needs a tune to enable. All this said, I got some tunes in the mail tonight that I'm anxious to try in the morning. (No, I'm not a truck-obsessed guy abandoning his family on Thanksgiving. My girls are on a are on a family trip, so it's just me and the dog.)

The idle thing isn't a huge big deal, and the NS thing isn't either, other than if my wife would have to drive it unexpectedly. I guess I prefer stealth in a lot of ways, whether it's idle sounds, no-start behavior, or anything else.

I am really looking forward to trying the new tunes!

Mark

 

Tow tunes should present shifting differently more so when towing, because then you are using more throttle pedel position %, you may not fully feel the difference like you are expecting if you are driving empty to judge them.