i had this posted in the superduty section but i think that was the wrong section. i am moving it here and maybe someone can give me an idea or two.

e99 quad cab , manual trans,4x4 drw with 135k miles and 3.73 gears. for pulling a toyhauler camper only, not a daily driver or race truck. i am new to the the forum and have read some really good info on this forum. this might be a little long for my first post so i'll do my best to keep it as short as possible.

i bought this truck from the original owner about 10 years ago. it had 80k miles on it at that time and he had a folder with a stack of receipts. the complete history from day one, from wiper blade replacements to warranty work. he had receipts for all oil changes of which were all done at the dealership. original owner only used the truck to pull there fifthwheel camper and i purchased it to pull my fifthwheel toyhauler camper. i only put about 7k miles a year on it and just turned 135k miles. i wasn't able to stop on the innerstate to get a pic of the odo rolling 100k miles but i was close. i ran a dp tuner with an afe stage 3 intake and full exh for the 1st several years. it ran pretty good and got the job done but on certain hills it would hit 1300* and start dropping speed, ran out of boost.

2.5 years ago, i decided on a few modifications for better usable power. i called full force and ordered 205/30 hybrid inj's, t4 up pipe kit, sxe 366/.91 exh turbo, adrenaline hpop and hydra tuner. i also purchased a fuel cross over kit from riff raff and have the fuel psi set at 65 psi. i got php tunes with the hydra but later tried 1023 tunes as well as jelibuilt. 3 revisions from bill at php ( pretty sure his name was bill) , 3 revisions from 1023 and 2 from jelibuilt. i like the php tunes and def the most power but a tad smoky plus higher egt's. 1023 has a great stockish tune but thats all i can say about those tunes. i had high hopes as he said he bought an e99 manual just to learn how to tune with it. no good on my truck pulling a camper. i really like jelibuilt's tunes for the lighter throttle response for towing. php tunes will hit 40 psi and i am not a fan of that as i do not have head studs, stronger push rods or heavier valve springs. jelibuilts tune seem to have a limit of 28 psi boost loaded where php's will it 40 psi on a 80 dd tune. towing at 75 mph i'm usually between 2100 and 2400 rpm depending ( below that and it can be a little smoky and laggy which is why i am looking into a diff turbo). php's are a little smokier that jelibuilts but more power. neither normally go over 1200* on a hot day ( 95* ambient and only saw 1250* egt once

) pulling an 11k lb fiver up a decent hill. the sxe seems to hit a brick wall on egts at 1200* pulling grade loaded. since ford cruise control strategy is to floor it i have learned which hills to shut it off on with php tunes or it will shoot to 35 psi faster than i can hit the off switch!

i have had a slightly rough idle since i installed all of the above. i do know that the idle will never be as crisp and smooth as stock but at operating temp the idle gets a little rough where it is crisp and smooth from cold start to operating temp. it is literally like someone flips a switch at 185* ish on the auto meter gauge. now that rough idle changes between php, jelibuilt and 1023 tunes. still there but one is better than the others. the reason i am posting this is today, is because i called brian at jelibuilt. tried to explain and ask about a revision to adjust for hot idle. i don't really have issue with a slightly rougher idle but when loaded ( 90% or the time) i jump off the innerstate to refuel, pull up to the stop light or pump, the idle gets pretty rough and lopey. twice it got so rough i actually wondered if the engine was going to stall. the hotter the ambient temp the rougher the hot idle. now i now ambient temps play a roll with all forced induction engines. again not expecting a crisp smooth idle but wouldn't think it should feel like the truck is shaking like the shifter handle.

i did connect my snap on scanner and watch oil temps. i do have a manual trans and every thing i have read states they have two coolant temp sensors and the pcm reads off of ect rather than oil temp. my e99 does not have 2 sensors, i have checked. i have an auto meter temp gauge plumped into the water pump housing drivers side. seems pretty accurate but an anolog gauge none the less. watching oil temp at 75 mph loaded on a 90* ambient day, maybe 25 mph winds. oil temp was about 15*/25* higher than coolant temp. problem is that loaded the truck usually sits right at 210* but can drop between the 200* and 210* depending, so trying to gauge that gets tricky. once out of the wind or on flat ground the oil temps dips as quickly as coolant temps so i never considered that an issue.

after telling jelibuilt that, he said that's unusually high, really only want to see 5* ish higher than ect. he said i probably have an inj issue and there's no point in trying revisions until that's repaired. he also stated live tuning would need to be done, i do get that as that's the best way. there is no one live tuning in nebraska that i know of. hell i would drive to the adjoining states if i could find someone there. he asked what my icp and ipr % were...... i haven't checked in a while but i do remember my ipr % sits at 13 to 14% on cold start. i will have to check those again. i do like the turbo but miss my low end from the e99 turbo. the e99 turbo saw 1 psi by 1200 rpm where the sxe 366 doesn't until 1550 rpm. the sxe isn't really responsive until 1750 rpm and over 1800 rpm very responsive!!

so i don't think jelibuilt wants to mess with an e99 pcm with a manual trans. php takes for ever to get revisions from and gave up on 1023. i called gear head and a couple other places today..... they say i need to upgrade to a late99 dpi21 or 22 pcm. i have the 21 but never installed it as it's not the original and I believe someone, should be able to write tunes for an e99. if i could just get the operating temp idle smoothed out a bit i would stick with jelibuilts tunes. gear head said they would try and write a trial tune for my e99 for $75 but just not sure and they highly recommend i put the late 99 pcm in. i understand it has almost twice the tuning cells over the e99. i am not a tuner but i do understand what that means. jelibuilt says he sets icp at 620 psi at idle but didn't specify cold or hot. he said 13 to 14% ipr but then said it should be 10% once i said it is 14%. again didn't specify cold or hot on ipr % at idle. seemed to be some miscommunication with him or a lag in the phone system like he's using a wifi for phone. that or he didn't seem to be listening so i assume he wants nothing to do with this. i switched to amsoil sever duty 15/40 oil ( from motorcraft 15/40) and that helped the loaded hot rough idle some. i know that expensive oil and i still change it every 3500 miles which is only twice a year. it actually quieted the engine down a tad and made a small yet noticeable diff in running.

i know this is long winded but here is my questions.....

what temp diff is actually acceptable between coolant temp and oil temp on a hot day loaded running higher boost levels say 25 psi off and on?

what ipr % should i see at idle either cold or operating temp?

what icp pressure is acceptable at idle?

can the hot idle issue be addressed through inj pulse width or is it an icp issue as jelibuilt stated?

does or can anyone recommend a company that knows how to tune e99 pcm with a manual trans, or is it all just upgrade to late 99 pcm's now? sad if it is....

are custom tunes based on or take into account oil or coolant temp? i ask this question as one company told me know and that they are used for safety's.

 

Veing you have an e99, just stay away from GH, trust me.
oil temps do not seem an issue at all, you are working the truck and they are staying in spec, and dropping down to coolant temp as soon as heavy demand on engine subsides.
Ipr on cold start is normal, once to opperating temp ipr should be 10-11, warm idle icp varries from tuner to tuner, and depends on tune style/agressiveness.

I Highly suggest you look up and call or email Andrew Arthur at AA Design Performance. He is wonderful to work with and a very good tuner. He uses php base files and will adjust and do whatever is needed to get you tuned well and happy.

 

What he said, but I'll add that personally I've seen noticeable changes in idle and even small difference in throttle response and performance from grounding and power cable connections. It seems that every ground I find and clean or add new makes some difference.

 

will do and thanks for the heads up on GH. they never did email me as they stated they would so i take that as a no from them as well. i will have to re -check at operating temp. i have access to AE for m psd. i did record a data log for 1023 but could not figure out how to convert the file so that diff programs could open it. of course after i emailed to him he never responded which is when i gave up. to say his tunes were on the smoky side would be bordering a lie lol when you buddy calls you on the phone to ask you to quit spraying for bugs at 75 mph, with a 34' fifthwheel behind you cause it's making his eyes water..... that's a little smoky.

 

i am glad you brought this up. i have only told one person this for fear of sounding crazy......... i did start to crack loose the ground point nuts and bolts on my truck. the very first one was the one beside the left side batt. as soon as i cracked that one my door locks cycled. i loosened and cleaned 5 total points that i could find. didn't have an effect on idle though. i have even cut the cps pig tail off and replaced it with a new ford one. tried 4 cps and diff colors etc etc. 1023 swore full force sold me the wrong size inj's cause he couldn't seem to turn the fuel down far enough or something. full force told me to try a diff cps. i seperated the pcm ground from the wiper motor ground as sometimes my wipers wouldn't shut of when commanded to until i cylced the switch multiple times. separated grounds and that stopped, jelibuilt says i have bad injs because i experience jumpy/lopey idle with all 3 diff tuners tunes. i told him the idle changes between the 3 diff sets of tunes with php's tunes haveing the best idle but still not as crisp as up to operating temp. i really do like php's tunes but he never could get the aggresive tps tip in toned down like jelibuilt sets his. in a manual pulling a fifthwheel the last thing you want is an over sensitive tsp on take off! lunging would be a good description lol

 

I have some of your symptoms and similar on my 2000 zf6, very similar setup to you, save the injectors are FFD 180/30
All my issues started with the FFD injectors, and everything points to them. Of course, what is odd is 1023 isthe only tuner that can tune them to run decent without stupid smoke, but cold starts smoke out my driveway for over 15 min and high rpm starts seeming like it is missing, and Idles wonky for a bit.

I think I am gonna buy new injectors for the auto, then send the new ac's in that oit for testing and swap them in place of my ffd units. People might think I am crazy, but I am really leaning to just AD%30 in my auto

 

Another thing to check with ae since you have an e99, is voltage signal from your external baro sensor, if you baro went bad, it could possibly cause similar issues to what you have.

 

that is interesting...... now if an electrical sensor ( barometer) went bad wouldn't that light up my check engine light or set a soft code? i don't have any codes saved or set but maybe a 50/50% on if it would set a light or is on the far edge but still in range sorta? i'll have to check now. what i do know is the hotter the ambient temp , plus loaded, when i pull off the innerstate down the exit ramp to stop and get fuel....... it's got a jumpy idle hot. if ambient drops say 15 to 20* to say 80 ish* then i don't experience as much or the lpey/jumpy idle is reduced. the crazyiest part is this doesnt happen until it's hits operating temp and i mean like a light switch on the wall. i can sit there and watch the auto meter temp gauge climb and point to right when it will catch a slight lope at op temp. it does not make the truck un drivable. it's just annoying and had me thinking of trying to find some one that may offer larger split shots. only twice has it gotten so bad that i wondered if the engine was going to stall from that lopey/jumpy idle. those were 96* ambient days and wind with sustained 25 psi for hrs towing the fiver. it just needs a little more tuning for the hot oil area but i have to find someone that knows how to do that. jelibuilt doesn't or won't and 1023 cannot. i am glad his tunes worked for you eswift . i will be contacting the aa design to see if he will write tunes for e99. i will see if there is another way to change the data log file to something readable and maybe send a cop of that. the barometer is an interesting thought as the trip to the oklahoma sand dunes is an elevation change.

 

What about all your accessories? I've seen my mass fuel desired start bouncing around just by working the steering wheel at idle. That's what finally got me to stop dragging my feet on replacing the power steering pump. Just a thought might be another avenue to explore.

 

That is actually something I am wondering cpuld be affecting me, see the bluetop thread.

 

It has almost completely gotten rid of the idle surge, well that and the new Bosch 6.0 alternator. Mass fuel is pretty steady now just still a little high. It hovers about 10/10.5, but on the rare occasion when it decides to drop to about 8.5, heaven on 4 wheels baby. I can even hear myself think, which can be dangerous and known to cause cancer in the state of California.

 

i had no idea the ps could even remotely effect that! thanks for the great info! it is funny you say this as last sun i poured a cap full of rev ex in the ps pump, to free it up a bit. that's the 2nd time in 2 years and i did suck the res empty and replace the fluid last time as well. when i went to the t4, bg 366 and irates inner cooler piping, the left pipe rubbed on the ps lid. i actually had to cut the pipe down 3/4" at the turbo. luckily, i have a cheap harbor freight bead roller to finish it. that bought me maybe 3/16" bordering 1/4" of clearance. the next camper tow it struck the lid and shot ps fluid all over. i re adjusted the pipe to all the extremes i could and now have 1/2" and has not knocked the lid off since. however, it has not worked as well since that event. on cold start ( even on a 50* morning) i have to rev the motor to turn the wheel or there is more drag than it had before. it does this until it warms up a tad. i put a cap full of rev ex or even archoil ( i have tried both) and it free's it up right now and lasts quite a while. one of the last trips to the dunes, my steering went from pretty tight to some what sloppy. i do not like sloppy steering at all, especially while towing a camper. i dropped the truck off at a med duty truck repair shop ( they service the fed ex trucks and others) and said if need be, rebuild the whole front axle to the lock outs. they called me and said the steering gear box has a tad bit of play but the drag link, tie rods and ball joints, u joints and lock outs are all good. i adjusted the steering box in 1/8" increments ( with the wheels off the ground) and wound up screwing it in 5/8 turn. the steering wheel feels pretty good with just a hint of wonder now and does not get tight on center.

the point is that i know i need a new ps pump and gear box. i am taking the toyhauler for a dune run in two weeks and didn't want to swap all that out before the trip. i don't like changes before a road trip, pre fer to drive it locally as the tow bill would be cheaper! after the trip i planned on a blue top or red top as they both look promising as well as a new ps pump. again, i had no idea that could cause that and it has been " slightly dragging" for a couple years. i looked into getting a ( what i call ) new rag joint for the steering shaft. apparently you have to buy the steering shaft to get it. i am pretty sure that ps fluid softened it up as it coated the whole gear box and that plastic cover, as well as everything around it. took a while to clean it off with foaming engine cleaner.

one more issue i had the last two years is that my cooling temp starting to creep up 10* to 15* warmer than normal, while loaded only. i had this issue on the first 7.3 i owned ( but much higher temps) turned out the center of the radiator was plugged top to bottom and was blocking the extreme heat to the fan clutch. swapped the radiator, fan clutch, thermostat and flushed the block and i had to block the radiator on cold winter mornings to get any heat on the way to work. one extreme to the other on that truck! so, of course my first thoughts ( with this truck) were that this one was plugging up, possibly. i said to hell with it and bought a new radiator, water pump with gasket, cooling fan clutch and thermostat from the local ford dealer. bought an aluminum thermostat housing from riff raff as the factory ones rust out ( on my 3rd one at that point). upon removing the water pump i saw that the bearing had some play to the point the impeller had leaned over and left a scuff mark in the shape of a crescent moon on the block. no sharp edges but you could see the tip of the impeller where it was starting to touch ( smoothed and cleaned with emery cloth) but never had any coolant loss out of the weep hole. stuck a garden hose in the block and let it run for an hr to flush what i could flush out. replaced all that, and now, it runs cold. running empty, i can let it high idle to 100* and take off towards town. takes 15 miles on a 50* morning before the i see the thermostat open on the auto meter coolant gauge. i had high hopes when i pulled the camper after that as i was hopeful this would help cool the oil better....maybe a touch better on that idle concern but didn't solve it 100%. i did not change the oil cooler at that time but did buy an o ring kit from diesel o rings. i have never personally had one apart so i don't know if they can start to plug with build up over time. it is after all original and the trucks build date is 11/27/98. also while i had it all apart, i spun the pulley's and acc's just to make sure they all spin freely. i replaced the tension-er and idler just because they were original and sounded dry. i noticed that the alternator sounds a little dry but did not replace the alt as it's rock solid on voltage at idle. i do plan on replacing it when i have it apart for the ps pump and gear box. if the new cooling system doesn't smooth the idle then it's got to be tuning or inj's, which is why i have been asking. i know the tunes are a part of it for sure as it changes with the diff tunes as in diff tunes from diff tuners. i will have to figure out how to data log and covert the file.

so now i need to check the baro mentioned above as well as look at any changes to commanded fuel while turning the wheels. of course if that alt is dragging a touch that might have an effect on it as well? i think i may change the alternator before the trip, i have never heard of a 6.0 alt swap. what are the advantages and any mods to do this?

i do have a good used for radiator in a box for a back up now i guess lol

 

@jstihl may like to know about this power steering phenomenon as well. I think he is still searching for an erratic idle cause.

 

Could this be an issue with the IPR when it gets warm? Might try spraying it with some office duster (read this from other people) to cool it when the truck is lopey as a test.

I’m impressed you got Bill to tune for you. He is into so many things now that PHP no longer does custom tuning. At least that’s what I’ve heard.

 

The 6.0 is just a small improvement over our factory 110 amp unit. The Bosch AL7606N is rated at 140-150 amps depending on the website you're looking at. RockAuto was the best price I found at just under $175 to my front door. It does require grinding about a quarter of an inch from the very bottom of the saddle on the factory bracket. You will also want to swap your original pulley to the new alternator since the 6.0 is slightly larger.
Edit: Oh yeah I forgot to mention the new Bosch unit also comes with a lifetime warranty just an added bonus