So yes, I am new......I would like to pre-empt all apologies
(now if you want to talk about the MN12 chassis......heh)

I've been looking into another vehicle of the 4WD sort because my precious baby of a 94 Tbird doesn't like snow (and doesn't make a very good work [farm] vehicle)

Up until now I've been basically set on finding a F150 with a 300-6 and a 5 speed...
~criteria~
*1/2 ton or smaller
*4WD
*preferably manual [preferably 5 speed]
*little or no rust - atleast no holes is what I ask

My reasoning for the 300-6...
I've had quite a few people say they will last forever...2 of whom I trust greatly and both have vast experience with vehicles and what makes them go vroom.
Against the 302 and the 351...well.....in my experiences, I'm beginning to find out that 302s WILL leak oil. Both have that V8 gas user factor as well....I'll be driving this thing 120 miles almost every weekend....and although my V8 thunderbird doesn't get good gas milage at WOT...I'd like to keep the truck somewhat reasonable...

Trans - the manual, along with commonly selling for cheaper, should hold up better if I throw a load on the hitch.....or so I "think". Maybe a nice big Trans cooler on the auto would work beautifully?

Now am I thinking/learning things that are totally wrong?
~What kind of gas milage differences am I looking at between the engines? (being a college ~kid~ and 65 miles from home sucks)
~Is the 5.0L realy going to leak oil like a...well, got no analogy there...(I know I cursed the 5.0/C4 setup in my 80 bird drag car when I took it out because it leaked every fluid possible along with some that weren't possible)

And what do I need to know about these trucks? what little quirks should I watch out for?

*this truck shopping is getting to me. Was going to look at, what looked like a really realy clean "low" [110K] mile 93 Xcab with the 300-6 and 5 speed that I seek.....and they SOLD IT a couple days before.....figures. And then everything else that looks nice (over the internet ya know.....can make miss lewinkski look ~nice~ over the internet) is quite the hike to look at.......

but I've got my fingers crossed - going to find that "special" ford......don't want to end up in a *gasp* chevy


........or maybe a ranger......heh
(okay, actually I have a couple that I found that look real sharp...newer body style with lifts.. )

Learn me a thing or five guys (or girls of course )!


And of course I can't leave without dropping my ~many thanks~ to you guys because I KNOW you're going to fill me full of info here....right....


-Justin, but my friends call me "dubbsy"

 

There are tons of 6cyl mauals for sale out there. I would have to agree about them lasting forever and that the 302-351 leakage problems. I'm not sure why, but they just seem to be leaky. I have a 1990 302 with AOD and i like it. It gets about 13-18 mpg. It doesn't leak...anymore. I had to replace the intake manifold.... antifreeze ate it away, and installed new valve cover gaskets. I also put in a new rear main seal and a new oil pan gasket. Egr system seems to be a trouble spot no matter what engine you choose. Usually simple to fix though.

 

my dad has the 300 w/5 speed in his 94 4x4 f150 and i have a 93 f150 4x4 5.0 e40d extended cab and the gas milage is close on the highway running 5-7 over i can get 18mpg. hell 2003 f150's have a hard time getting that.

 

94TBird

I would say whoever you know has been feeding you some accurate info. My 95 5 speed 300 gets 17 mpg in city or short burst driving and my carbed 351 three speed tranny gets 11-12 mpg in short burst driving so highway would obviously be better, the figures on the 351 are with a new rebuild so it hasn't broken in and the mpg was also figured with a bad tune I have since got it running great so the figure should be better. As far as pulling power the 300 can handle just about any thing you want as a matter of fact I swear my 300 truck runs 100% better when it is pulling something if you want the v8 go for the 351 it is a little more low end torque oriented than the 302, given the shorter stroke of the 302 it wants to rev a little more to make hp and tq. Fords are known for rear main leaks and worn main bearings when you cross ino the 100,000+ mile club, but seem to want to keep on going. Should you go with the 300 you might want to get a 5 speed which is common anyways it really makes the truck feel stronger as opposed to the auto. Good luck if taken care of any of the three motors would serve you well but if I had to pick it would be the inline 6 or 351. Should you get a carbed v8 truck replace the stock carb if it hasn't it is a holley carb but from the ford factory they suck. Just my opinion

 

Some opinions will be differant but I have to disagree on the 5 speed holding up better then an automatic. My personal experience has been that the Mazda 5 speed is too light for full size pickups and the Mitsubishi (sp?) 5 speed is two light for anything but a four cylinder Ranger. If you keep the oil changed at 30K to 40K miles even the light AOD transmission hold up pretty well. I work at a construction company that just sold the last of 8 1996 fords with 300 I6 with 5 speeds it bought new back in 1996. These where supervisor's trucks that saw a lot of miles with minimal towing and hauling. 4 had the transmissions replaced, all at about 100K miles, two of the others where constantly grinding as you shifted only two worked as they should. Two of my brothers had Ford replace their 5 speed transmissions at less the 50K.

 

I've had all three engines in 90's model F150's. The 300-6 and the 351 were both great engines for me. I didn't have any problems with my 302, but it didn't have much more power than the 300 and it got about the same gas mileage as the 351.

Just make sure whatever you get it has dual tanks. My 302 4x4 just had a single tank and if you drive a lot, it's a PITA.

 

You want long lasting, reliable? find a late 80's f150 w/ 300-6 EFI and the C6 Tranny. The best possible combination for longevity, IMO. C6 is indestructible and the 300-6 will last longer than the truck frame. Maintanence on the 300-6 is easier also. If it has 3.55 gears, thats good, but you may want something higher for the highway. 3.08's are too high but something in the 3.20 - 3.35 range would be perfect. That would put 60-65 MPH cruising at about 2600-2800 RPM, right in the sweet spot for a 300-6. 3.55's would be about 3000-3200 RPMs at 65 MPH. 300-6's are low speed torque mongers. best RPM range is 1800- to about 3000. After 3200, all you doin' is makin' noise. If you really insist on a 5-spd, find a f250 w/ 300-6 and the ZF 5-spd. I would stay away from the mazda M5OD. (came in f150's only) They have had a bad rap on this board. Syncros seem to be the part that fails first, mostly becuase they leak fluid from the plugs in the side of the tranny until the level is too low. Others built Hi-po 302's, and hope that the tranny will take it, (not for very long, however.) The ZF-5-spd is a 2-in-1 tranny. The first 4 gears are like a T-18 borg warner (granny low and 3-spds), the fifth gear is a high geared OD.

IMHO, you got the engine choice right. Now how 'bout that trans? C6 or ZF. either way is a very good choice.

Let us know what you decide.

 

My 88 F-150 w/302 is OK. 302 isn't much for pulling unless you like to rev it alot. I have 2wd and only make 15 mpg with a fresh tune up.

The 351 (5.8) is a way better truck engine in my opinion.

As for the M5OD tranny, dad had a 90 F-150 w/302 and the M5OD (you can go about 25 in 1st gear). We pulled trailer all the time with it loaded with cattle and never had a problem. We never ever pulled in 5th gear. Put a clutch in at 130k and sold it at 145k.

After having a 302 w/5 speed and now mine with the AOD - I would definitaly go with 5 speed (or 4 speed) if you are getting a 302.

I've driven pickups with the 351 and have been impressed with the power advantage over the 302.

The straight six and 5 speed will probably be the best for economy and longevity. I wish my pickup was a six shooter...

 

IMO the 302 isn't a very good truck engine. I would go for the 300 or the 351. The 300 will last you forever. The mazda 5 tranny isn't that bad in my opinion, I drove one with 250K on it. The ZF is the best tranny in my opinion, the only problem is you will only find it in a F-250 or the 88 F150.

 

Thanks for all of the great info....

With the M5OD, if the fluid leakage is stopped (that should be repairable, yes?) or watched to prevent the syncro problems, how would that transmission compare then? Is it still too light for the fullsized truck? I'm pretty sure that this truck won't see much time with a trailer behind it, at most maybe a couple 250 mile trips a year and MAYBE 60 miles with the drag car on the back occasional weekends. If I take away that factor, will the M5OD hold up just pulling the weight of the truck down the highway.

I'm not necessarily set on a 5 speed, just under the beilef that it will hold up better when I do stick a trailer behind the truck.

So what years am I looking at what options here?
(excuse me while I take a side trip here, see if I can find this info and spare you guys the time of answering stupid questions...okay, not seeing it)

All of the last few years of the 300-6, in the F150, would be backed by the M5OD then? (Manual 5 Over Drive?)

What year did they switch from the 4 speed to the 5 speed? Late 80s sometime correct?

Was there an option other than the ZF manual behind the 300-6 in the F250?

What years ran the C6? I"m sure the AOD-E 4R70W didn't enter the picture until the introduction of the modular (or are they backing the 4.2Ls as well?...either way...) Was there another Auto option in there?


(catching up on replies as I write this marathon post)

The ZF was put into the 88 150? As an option or was it mandatory? (maybe that was in the transition from a manual 4 to a manual 5?)


(quick note....looked for a f250 with the 300-6 and the Manual on autotrader locally, only found one with the 300-6...did have the Manual as well though.....200 mile hike to look at it )

Again, thanks for all of the input!
Guess I"ll continue my search....

Say Steve, still have the Tbird? (small world! Saw Steve over at TCCoA, only other bird owner from ND.....)

-Justin

 

94TBird

I thought I would elaborate on my previous post. Why I recommend the 5 speed is because in my opinion the auto especially aod in the six just feels like it has no go power. You could probably find a c6 / 300 in 88 down 87/88 would be an efi engine and possibley 86. The mazda tranny I have had two different trucks with the mazda tranny and I made the truck do what I wanted and not what I thought it could and it has done fine. the zf is a better design and would be easier found in the f-250 300 I believe. As with all engine and tranny components every once in a while you get a bad one no matter what it is, I don't think you will be upset with the old mazda tranny. If you do find the mazda tranny leaking I would go elsewhere if it were taken care of they would have noticed the leak an replaced the rubber seals. Hope this helps some

 

Originally posted by 94Tbird

All of the last few years of the 300-6, in the F150, would be backed by the M5OD then? (Manual 5 Over Drive?)

Yes.

What year did they switch from the 4 speed to the 5 speed? Late 80s sometime correct?

87-88 I believe

Was there an option other than the ZF manual behind the 300-6 in the F250?

The T-18 4 Speed was offered, I do not remember what years though.

What years ran the C6? I"m sure the AOD-E 4R70W didn't enter the picture until the introduction of the modular (or are they backing the 4.2Ls as well?...either way...) Was there another Auto option in there?

The E4OD was the auto tranny put into most 92-96s, not as reliable as the C6, and a lot of them die after 120K.

The ZF was put into the 88 150? As an option or was it mandatory? (maybe that was in the transition from a manual 4 to a manual 5?)

Yes, 88 was the only year the ZF was put into the F150s, they put the M5OD in the 88 also.

(quick note....looked for a f250 with the 300-6 and the Manual on autotrader locally, only found one with the 300-6...did have the Manual as well though.....200 mile hike to look at it )

It's hard to find F250s or Broncos with the 300-6 in them, I think a 250 with a 300-6 and a ZF is the best possible combonation though.

 

Sadly, the Tbird is gone. Transmission was on its last leg and I wasn't in the mood to pull it out again (did once already for new torque converter). So I bought the 88 F-150 to replace it and my 84 Ranger I sold.

Transmissions: Dad had an 89 F-150 4x4 with the 302 and a 4-speed. Also, there is a 92 F-150 advertised at a dealer here with a 300 six and 4-speed. See this webpage: http://www.bowmansales.com/Large%20w...es/B48861.html

I don't know about the AODE, but the 4R70W came in them after the mod motors were put in (97 and up). I looked at a 98 F-250 light duty with a 4.6 and 4R70W a few weeks ago. Also, the 4.2 V-6 showed up in 97 as well.

I know I looked at a 90 F-250 with a 460 and it had the C-6 in it yet, don't know after that.

Hope this helps...

 

My father in law had a Ford truck with the 300-6 and auto trans, I remembering doing a tune-up for him and other than that I don't remember him having any problems at all with it. He died a few years ago and his wife still has it but hardly drives it. When I was looking for trucks a few months ago, I contemplated calling her and offering to buy the truck. But since I left her daughter I didn't want to bother...lol.

 

heh.....

Again, thanks for all of the info....

I've spent the last hour and a half doing some looking...and everything that's catching my eye is 200 miles south.....on top of that, I don't think I'd be able to make that road trip for another week and a half, so who knows what'll be left around when I go looking. Probably head north (I've been 100 miles west and 30 miles north already) looking this coming weekend.
Gotta find something soon! Looks like snow all week! ish...

It's been a bit unfortunate. I found an almost mint 93 xcab with the 300-6 and a manual for a great price, but it was 2WD.

Steve, that looks like a nice truck, but the price is a little higher than what I'd like to pay and high compared to other trucks I"m looking at.


I might have to stop in to the ranger side of the board and ask some questions there. I've considered going that route as well, but I know absolutely nothing about the small fords other than the A4LD auto isn't the best....
But then if I go that route, I'll have to talk my ole man into buying a fullsize anyway


-Justin