Since the M block and 400 are the same , build a 400 (408) with the good block and buy some aftermarket aluminum heads. They ( along with 408 CI will EASILY give you 400+hp with the cam you want to use. NO reason to spend big money for 26 more CI when the aluminum heads will give you more HP per $ spent. An aluminum head will also tolerate 10.5 CR on pump gas and compression adds torque! 1HP er cubic inch is easy and 1.2 is "normal" for an average street car these days so you might get 450+ HP. To get to 500 or more it would be better to start with a 460. I have a 521 , 87 octane and CA emissions legal hyd roller that makes 500 HP with 600TQ and has a 4,500 "red line". Looks like a stock 460 , iron manifold and all.
Randy

 

I just did a 410" motor. Reliable 500 horsepower, all day long with the right combination of parts and much more in it if I wanted it. It's well documented in my build thread. I spent a lot of money though, there are better options but no one does 400s...that's part of the fun.

 

Hi, I have browsed for 408 Clevor examples and ideas, and I used to be on this site ages ago.

Does anyone know of any Clevor engines built with stock 4V heads? I have some Cleveland parts, but I would prefer to make something that would be very reliable, fun, and use the old stock 4V heads.

I made a thread on the Torino forum where I post because I have a 73 Ranchero to get to some day. This was just for my own reference so I can go back to it, and anyone can also use it for ideas etc;
EFI Stroker SBF with 4V heads, a build idea - The Ford Torino Page Forum

There should be plenty of Windsor blocks available, and plenty of running 351W trucks as well. The Cleveland doesn't lend itself to stoking well, and it has a couple of issues with the lifter galley and intake choices etc. The Windsor has no big issues, and 4V heads would help a lot on a 408 platform. So I hunted around and noticed most 408 kits can have Cleveland pistons with them, two were in the $1200-$1400 range. I like EFI so a Windsor intake was a short search, there aren't many good ones.The two largest fit my idea though, bigger flowing and will work on any 351W EFI engine. I like the TFS R intake, nice and big, but rarely sold used, so new is $800+ from Summit

The Cleveland heads don't go on a 351W easily, but I gather they will with a certain intake spacer kit made for them. It runs $120 if it's still made, basically 3/8" plates to fill the gap between a W intake and the C heads, on a W block.

I figured the cost would be near $6 for the whole engine, without the computer or fuel pump, tuning, MAF, or injectors. But that's not far beyond what some people put into project engines, or any crate engine. I would aim the engine at regular fuel, keep the compression down(9.7 or below) for that with a custom cam, and no roller rockers. The stock pedestal rockers work great for rpm's under 6000, which saves a bunch of money on machining and rocker parts. Port stuffers for the 4V heads look easy enough to install, and porting the intake upper and lower should be done.

I love the old Cleveland's, and the 351M and 400 are not bad either. But parts to upgrade them are scarce, and expensive versus other engines. I have a 4-bolt main 400 block that I never got to use, and likely never will. Back in the 80's you had to make do with stock parts and a few aftermarket intakes.

 

The Cleveland engine works just fine with a 4 inch stroke 6 inch rod 1.200 piston. With the Windsor engine you have to use a longer rod; the deck height is .300 taller but the cylinder length is the same. A 6.200 works fine. The .300 taller deck height is a mixed blessing because it makes the engine wider this makes a big difference with the canted valve style heads.

You'll have to bore the deck face of the heads so that you can plug the water ports. Then depending on what you do for an intake either drill an outlet in the intake face of the head sort of like a Boss 302 or drill a hole in the front of the head to let the water out and then use a couple of hoses to route the coolant. A few years ago I built a 445 for a customer with a Pantera. I used a Dart block, a set of CHI heads and intake manifold. I used some -12 AN hose and it actually worked out pretty well.

You have to watch out when using the stock rocker arms at above .500 or so lift. There are different versions and some will run out of slot. I've done hydraulic rollers using the non adjustable valve train with .580 or so lift before and it can work but you just have to double check the rocker arms.

 

Yes, details make it all work, or fail. The water passages are an issue that is minor with plenty of room at the front of the heads, but some like an Explorer have no room(brackets bolt to the heads). So a 3V 351 I plan will need the old 3V intake which has the proper water ports in it, like a Windsor or Boss 302. I have two sets of stock rockers with my old 4V heads, I had forgotten that there were differences. Thanks, if I got that far, I figured I'd be looking at new rockers if mine look rough for a nice build. I like roller rockers but the studs smaller than 7/16" are not ideal for DD street engines. The 5/16" pedestal kit type are scary to me, and I've used two for stock level builds.

I was looking at Windsor blocks because I read that the Cleveland had shorter cylinders. I don't mind any of the rod or piston specs, those are well tested. But the FMS Boss 302 block has short cylinders, and like those it's not ideal to push that piston out too far down. That's what these threads are about, hashing out the details.

 

A CHI 3V intake won't seal a factory 4V cylinder head. The old BA Performance intake would work if you could find one. The 351W block has no structural advantages over the Cleveland block. The main webbing and cylinder wall strength is about the same. The Windsor design's oiling system makes it easier to restrict the oil to the top end when running solid lifters but it won't matter on a street engine.

Harland Sharp makes a bolt down adjustable roller rocker arm that will work with the 5/16 hardware. Running with a hydraulic roller should be no problem.

 

.......that 335 Series engines are garbage no matter what can be done to them.

 

My 3V reference is to a different build, a 351 using a 302 Dart block, and .60 over, the 3V 185 heads and intake.

If the Cleveland block has the same length cylinders, I would prefer to build that as a 408. Because of that I thought of the 408W, which is common, aside from the pistons.

 

The Cleveland does have the same length cylinders just a shorter deck height than the Windsor. The bottoms of the cylinders are closer to the crank centerline.