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@Y2KW57 I am familiar with large alternators in a marine context and I happen to have some experience with larger boats which carry large alternators. I am also familiar with the alternators from large (OK, not that large, 10-25kW, I have no direct experience with the 100kW+ monsters that megayachts ship) gensets that these boats carry. I am significantly less familiar with land based applications, unfortunately - but I do also have some amount of formal training on power generation from university.
I mentioned Balmar above, with good reason: they manufacture alternators which will actually deliver rated output on a continuous basis (where continuous may well mean days) and they are the de facto standard for larger boats. I realise that the requriements are quite different but while they (Balmar) do provide smaller units, using these for large 'house' battery banks is met with mixed results: the fundamental difference is that the units you cite may well work very reliably on emergency vehicles, as you describe, for one or a few hours but they WILL give up the ghost when they have to keep a 1200-2000Ah@24Vcc battery bank alive for two or more weeks at a time. Been there, done that, have the bills to prove it. I now have their large case units installed and they survived multiple ocean crossings where no power was spared, surviving the .2C requirements of a modern LiFePO4 battery bank (which means putting out ~400A@24Vcc for four hours per cycle over two house bank alternators, with balancing). They use the same J-180 4" mount that the AVi-160 uses, however they are approximately twice as long, the case diameter is 20-25% greater and the cost is very different. I will grant you that the 200A are output at 24Vcc, but the same unit is rated for 310A@12Vcc for reasons which I assume we're both acquainted with.
To add further fuel to the fire, the steep performance curve (thus, high amp output at relatively low RPM) further complicates matters from a generation and thermal management perspective. Being between a large diesel and an insulated hood doesn't help.
It really depends on what you're after, in essence. I have no reason to doubt that the Leece-Neville unit you quote will be able to fulfill the rating that is on the datasheet, though one important piece of information that is missing is the time/temperature curve at a given output (which typically specifies a maximum ambient temp that tends to be wishful thinking for boats and land vehicles alike, but it's a start). Therefore, we do not have data as to whether the alternator is rated to provide those 200 Amps for say six hours without exceeding the 125C rated temperature when inside a truck kept at high idle in the summer, where underhood temperatures will easily exceed 40C (and 50C as well, despite the engine fan, I suspect). This is what I meant when I said that I was doubtful that given the size and price of the alternator it would be able to provide 200 Amps. It's funny because I'm generally on the OTHER side of this discussion, berating the unjustified costs and requirements of 'marine' equipment versus the far more reliable and far more frequently utilised 'land' equipment, but that is another topic for another time.
I'm sure you'll point out that there is very little call for that kind of output and that therefore the LN unit will be perfectly suited to the actual requirements of 98% of SD users, to include emergency vehicles and the like. True, but I am one of those extremely annoying people who expect 2.5 ton jacks to be able to lift 2.5 tons, so to speak. It's a pet peeve of mine and I apologise if it wasn't particularly helpful in this context.
The international part number is LNA602022. Going to call international and ford later and see if I can get prices.
Originally Posted by Sous
Having the International number (LNA602022). As Y2KW57 mentioned, there are nearly two dozen diesel applications, once you get a part number from Ford, please post it here.
If you don't find much luck or get very far with International using the part number quoted above (google it and you'll see), try using the International part number I have, which is 3869712C92, or LNAVI160T2002-3, or ZLNAVI160T2002-3, or A160202, or AVI160T2002-3 instead.
There are nearly 2 dozen 7.3L Ford diesel applications... that can all use the exact same AVi160T2002-2 Leece Neville alternator. I just want to it to be clear that there are not 2 dozen different versions of the Leece Neville alternator that must be chosen dependent on which 7.3L application. There are no dependencies. All 99-03 7.3L applications are 2 wire control. An ignition wire (I) and a voltage sense wire (A). The middle wire is a dummy. There is no circuit through the central pin of the regulator.
It is with some hesitation that I post a Ford part number (much further) below, because I find Ford part numbers can be misleading to folks who just want a part number, without taking the time to do additional cross checking, especially when buying parts that do not fall under one's own VIN. Lots of people don't have time, or don't want to take the time to read the details. They just want a part number and they are off to the races already. So I hesitate to post Ford part numbers to alternators, and here are a couple more reasons why:
Reason 1: Leece Neville released the T Mount version of the AVi160 series alternator on April 14, 2010. This is long beyond the production of any 7.3L. So any FORD part number indexed to the vehicle application will not result in the desired alternator.
Reason 2: More so than any other part, Ford revises alternator part numbers dozens, if not hundreds of times. The basic numbers remain the same (10300 or 10346) but a flurry of suffixes and prefixes that follow and precede the part number are numbing.
There are nine orderable part numbers in the list above, the rest are engineering numbers. All of these numbers cross over to the AVI160T2002-2, but none of them will result in receiving an AVI160T2002-2 from the Ford dealer. It can be very tricky fooling with Ford part numbers unless one really knows what to recognize, and all the particulars cannot be communicated comprehensively in a forum post, because there are always new wrinkles, supersessions, obsoletions, discontinuances, etc.
Here is another "cross reference" collection of Ford alternator part numbers, typically cited with listings for the Leece Neville AVi160T2002-2...
Here again, are a mix of Ford Engineering and Ford Customer Service Division part numbers, all indexed as applicable to the Leece Neville AVi160T2002-2, but none of which will result in receiving a black E-coated 230 amp 160mm alternator. How would a person know this by just looking? There is more to this than can be typed here, or that anyone would have interest to read, but I hope this is enough to convey the point that care must be taken when ordering by Ford part number or application.
And then there are the Motorcraft part numbers for alternators.. all of the following are cross referenced to the AVi160T2002-2, but if ordered from Ford, none will result in the Leece Neville alternator.
And then there is Remanufactured... and much of the rotating electrical that Ford sells is just that... re-manufactured, denoted by the RM at the end of the part number suffix.
With all that precautionary preamble out of the way, as of today, the Ford part number that should work to get the Leece Neville AVi160T2002-3 (note that this is not the -2, and the reason for this will be explained below)
Again, note that even these Ford and Motorcraft part numbers do not result in the delivery of a Leece Neville AVi160T2002-2. Instead, it is the AVi160T2002-3.
What's the difference? Longer bolts and spacers are shipped with the -3, in order to fit in the LCF bracket. The I Line regulator is the same, but no D shell translation harness is included.
But unlike OBS and some Econoline 7.3L, we don't need the D shell translation harness in the 99-03 Super Duty. So we can set the longer bolts and three spacers that are included with the -3 version aside, and plug and play.
As stated in a previous post, you don't want to use the spacers, due to them pushing the rotation axis of the alternator further away from the FEAD center and belt tensioner range, and, because the included spacers are so thick, you might dent your hood.
BLUF: AVi160T2002-2 or AVi160T2002-3 are valid part numbers for the 99-03 SD 7.3L PSD.
BLUF = Bottom Line Up Front
Expanded version...
Reputable source for AVi160T2002-2 is XDP at $349.95. (no pulley based on image)
Reputable source for AVi160T2002-3 is... (I don't know).
One must be very careful when searching for International part numbers (LNAVI160T2002, ZLNAVI160T2002, A160202, AVI160T2002-2) or Prestolite part numbers (AVi160T2002-2, AVi160T2002-3) because there are many, many, many knock offs out there available. I myself cannot discern the differences just by looking a the pictures or description, so I will not attempt to act as if I do. I only used XDP as a reputable source because Y2KW57 recommended them above as such. That is how I perceived it anyway.
F0rdc0wb0y, I hope you find what you are looking for and that it is somewhat easy to find a reputable source since you are not able to purchase directly from the supplier/manufacturer.
I knew exactly what you were talking about, but wanted to draw you out a little bit more, to make the conversation more interesting and instructive, from the point of view of your experience, which I perceived that you had in your first post.
You'll notice that I was very careful to only cite "size" in terms of "girth" and "circumference", and I deftly avoided mentioning anything about alternator depth or length.
I figured that once you pointed that out (and you did), I could come back and point to the hot side CAC piping in the photograph in the OP's first post.
That pipe prevents any additional depth of alternator body aft of the belt plane (at least in stock applications).
With that observed, the packaging constraints in our turbo diesel engines can be better appreciated by all who seek to upgrade the alternator in this particular vehicle application.
This is the reason why Prestolite Leece-Neville describes this alternator as a "pancake design", and why maximizing the diameter of the alternator, still fitting within the 3 post T mount, was the only way to attain more copper windings and more heat rejection capacity (the thermal stability you are looking for).
In the meantime, we got to hear some cool things about your experience. No question that reliability is paramount in the middle of the ocean! Your input is always appreciated.
Well you'll never guess what I was able to find so quickly...
Paid $324 out the door. I had a stock size pulley installed. Didn't want an overdrive pulley. Then he load tested it while I was there just for grins. 270 amps at full tilt.
So, tell us how you came about this gem so quickly...
Originally Posted by F0rdc0wb0y
Must go through a distributor. Going to call international and ford later and see if I can get prices.
Do you recall what the names of the distributors were? I see Idle Pro on one of the stickers: https://www.idleproextreme.com/
Did International recognize the LNA602022 number you listed above or did you have to use a variation of the number like Y2KW57 listed?
The reason why I am asking all of these questions is so that the next person that wants a high quality alternator, we can send them to this thread. But, I don't want to have them face the same trials and tribulations you did today by calling Prestolite, then calling several other places.
Any information you can provide to the FTE that would aid in the quick purchase of a Leece Neville by the next FTE'r would be greatly appreciated.
So, tell us how you came about this gem so quickly...
Do you recall what the names of the distributors were? I see Idle Pro on one of the stickers: https://www.idleproextreme.com/ There were two distributors in DFW, One in Dallas and one in fort worth. Dallas had it in stock and shipped trucked it over to fort worth where I picked it up. Alternator services inc. is where I went in fort worth for all you future texans.....
Did International recognize the LNA602022 number you listed above or did you have to use a variation of the number like Y2KW57 listed? I tried every variation of international part numbers I could find. Even some of y2k's. My local international dealer could not come up with anything. Was on the phone for half an hour and spoke with several different managers. They did their best. No hard feelings. I didn't even try my local ford dealer. That would have been a nightmare. I called the local distributors and went from there.
The reason why I am asking all of these questions is so that the next person that wants a high quality alternator, we can send them to this thread. But, I don't want to have them face the same trials and tribulations you did today by calling Prestolite, then calling several other places.
Any information you can provide to the FTE that would aid in the quick purchase of a Leece Neville by the next FTE'r would be greatly appreciated.
Answers in red sous. I will add that I did my best to verify that this alternator is legit. AFAIK it is. If it's not...someone let me know. I don't think it is especially after being told twice by two different prestolite techs up in new york this morning to go to this distributor to pick one up. I am a pessimist at heart though
I would like to thank both @F0rdc0wb0y and @Y2KW57 for the information they provided in this thread. Hopefully it will be a great resource for years to come.
Also, @lfabio provided some great advice for those of us with super yachts.
@Y2KW57 that was pretty sneaky of you
I tend to tread softly where I can: I realise I am new here and I also realise that I can be quite.. outspoken about my opinions. Thus I volunteer as little information as possible, a process which you carefully short-circuited. Chapeau!
On the other hand, I did already receive a lot of valuable information on the forum, thus I feel an obligation to share what expertise I may have. You get to deal with me when I go down my usual 'overengineered and overspecced' rabbit holes.
Looking at the actual sizes for the stator casing of the Leece-Neville... well! 166mm dia and ~105mm (!!! pancake indeed) depth don't exactly result in much volume, but I understand what you're saying about depth and the piping. If one were to really need something bigger modifications would have to be made and it would become complicated, probably for no good reason. It'd be easier to do the Ford thing and install a second alternator, certainly.
Finally, I was going to ask about the prestoliteonline outlet, having found it myself: it seems like a legitimate source but pricing is... aggressive, very similar to what @F0rdc0wb0y found from the distributor, and I have learned to be wary when pricing looks too good.
Oh and @Sous , not superyachts, just (somewhat larger than average) sailboats. I'm not quite THAT crazy, though I'm sure some will disagree.
The alternator you show in your pics is the real deal. Box. Labels. Packaging. All legit. You have revision G. I have revision E. So there have been two changes between your version and my version. But you did the right thing to pick one up locally.
The part number for International that you were given is invalid. The part number I provided revealed two units in International's entire parts network, and they were in Chicago, and since International changed online parts ordering systems to a different contract vendor in August, it was unclear if those units were even in stock. Anyway, the price was over $800 (but the price at Ford was over $1,000), so again, like I said, you did well to get it from a local bricks and mortar store.
Our FTE Sponsor XDP was out of stock.
Take your time placing the alternator in the bracket to determine where to shave the bracket. Try to finish the edges smooth, rather than leave sharp transitions or gouges which invite crack initiation sites due to stress risers that abrupt changes in edges can inspire. I took photos to do an entire write up on an alternator installation, so I do have step by step photos of my process, but got too busy to post them. A couple years later, Sous asked to see some of my photos of my wiring, which got me thinking I should get back to that and do that write up, but then when Sous posted his write up, I decided that there wasn't a need any more.
The locations where the bracket needs to be modified are VERY DIFFERENT from where folks modify the bracket for a large case 6G. KEEP THAT IN MIND.
I used witness paper to mark where the bracket needed modification, and feeler gauges to remove as little material as possible, and only in the small locations necessary, and none of those locations was where previous people have modified their brackets to accommodate the large case 6G or the Mighty Mitsubishi 215 amp alternator (another Ford sanctioned option, also $1,000.00 retail through Ford).
If I can find those mounting process photos on one my point and shoot cameras, I'll post them up for you. A video out there shows the owner cutting into their brackets with a grinder with a stone wheel. (by Matt of Gearhead). That would NOT be the way I would go about it, but I don't expect anyone to do things my way, because I never do things the way anyone else does.
The alternator you show in your pics is the real deal. Box. Labels. Packaging. All legit. You have revision G. I have revision E. So there have been two changes between your version and my version. But you did the right thing to pick one up locally.
The part number for International that you were given is invalid. The part number I provided revealed two units in International's entire parts network, and they were in Chicago, and since International changed online parts ordering systems to a different contract vendor in August, it was unclear if those units were even in stock. Anyway, the price was over $800 (but the price at Ford was over $1,000), so again, like I said, you did well to get it from a local bricks and mortar store.
Our FTE Sponsor XDP was out of stock.
Take your time placing the alternator in the bracket to determine where to shave the bracket. Try to finish the edges smooth, rather than leave sharp transitions or gouges which invite crack initiation sites due to stress risers that abrupt changes in edges can inspire. I took photos to do an entire write up on an alternator installation, so I do have step by step photos of my process, but got too busy to post them. A couple years later, Sous asked to see some of my photos of my wiring, which got me thinking I should get back to that and do that write up, but then when Sous posted his write up, I decided that there wasn't a need any more.
The locations where the bracket needs to be modified are VERY DIFFERENT from where folks modify the bracket for a large case 6G. KEEP THAT IN MIND.
I used witness paper to mark where the bracket needed modification, and feeler gauges to remove as little material as possible, and only in the small locations necessary, and none of those locations was where previous people have modified their brackets to accommodate the large case 6G or the Mighty Mitsubishi 215 amp alternator (another Ford sanctioned option, also $1,000.00 retail through Ford).
If I can find those mounting process photos on one my point and shoot cameras, I'll post them up for you. A video out there shows the owner cutting into their brackets with a grinder with a stone wheel. (by Matt of Gearhead). That would NOT be the way I would go about it, but I don't expect anyone to do things my way, because I never do things the way anyone else does.
That puts my mind at ease. Thank you sir. I would love to see any pictures you can provide of the installation process whenever you have a chance.
Would it be worth it to run one of these leece neville alternators with a dual alternator set up? Would you have to delete the second alternator? Lastly do you have to upgrade the battery, alternator, and ground cables to run an alternator such a this? Sorry to sidetrack the thread a little , just thought it would be good to know for us dual generator guys. Thanks for any input
On edit: fordcowboy I now remember you saying that you had a dual alt on your truck because of the belt flutter problem you were having. Did you keep the second alternator?
Would it be worth it to run one of these leece neville alternators with a dual alternator set up? Would you have to delete the second alternator? Lastly do you have to upgrade the battery, alternator, and ground cables to run an alternator such a this? Sorry to sidetrack the thread a little , just thought it would be good to know for us dual generator guys. Thanks for any input
I believe Y2K has dual alts. I'll let him verify though. I would be interested in this as well. My 2001 has duals.
I would like to thank both @F0rdc0wb0y and @Y2KW57 for the information they provided in this thread. Hopefully it will be a great resource for years to come.
Also, @lfabio provided some great advice for those of us with super yachts.
Thanks Y2KW57 for the lead to this "sequel" thread. Its been a great read. Blown away by the knowledge shared here by the members of FTE. I was all in and in agreement up to the potential issue with the alternator and diagnostic. But had to step back and admired the depth of knowledge about alternators, who would have thunk it, alternators?? That was flowing was fascinating! I learned a lot.
I second Sous's appreciation for the information and their time contributed by all for the great information. ( I like mine Dark!)
Blue
Geez, doesn't get any better than a night catching up on emails and FTE and having a warm dark one watching a hurricane live on TV just an hour or so away..Tracking a little south though. But bullseye on place at the lake. And dang boat still on the lift. Oh well. Wife said that's what we have insurances for.
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