Hello All,

Fairly new member here, but have been reading around this forum a lot over the past few weeks. I've got an 02 high mileage Excursion that I purchased for a little of nothing. Its a V10 (305hp, 420tq) truck, that at the time of purchase I had the intention of doing a Cummins swap with. However, I'm now considering a 3.5EB with either the 6R80 or 10R80 from an F150. The power is well in excess of stock, without any tuning. There doesn't seem to be a lot of information readily organized regarding this type of swap, and was hoping to get some guidance.

1. Plan on purchasing the entire drivetrain, however I cannot determine whether I'll need any of the other electronics from the truck besides the ECM and TCM. (BCM?)
2. I've read about some great tuners, anyone have any recommendations for someone that has worked on this style of swap?
3. What are the thoughts on the 6R80 vs 10R80? I built a spreadsheet for final drive ratio with different tire sizes and rear ends, don't think it's going to matter from the gearing perspective. Planning on 3.73 with 35's, more than likely upgrading to dana 60's from the 05-10 truck.
4. Plan on reusing existing transfer case, with as much of the original body control functions.
5. Would you use an aftermarket EPAS on this size of a vehicle, or add a power steering pump to the EB? Anyone added a power steering pump to an EB?

Thanks

Hoodlum

 

Welcome to FTE!

Have you been through this thread? Sure, it's focused on older trucks, but might be worth a look.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-79-truck.html

 

Thanks, enjoying my time on here so far. I've been through that thread, and it's a pretty phenomenal build. The first truck he was working on was more of a body swapped. He did say he was working on another truck with fewer electronics, but I didn't see much on that thread or his garage journal blog. But it is almost 300 pages long as well and could have missed it. Hopefully Boss9F100 could chime in.

 

My 2 cents, the ecoboost is an incredible, very available engine. For some reason Ford Performance halted production of their control pack for engine swaps which made it insane easy, just plug and play. They didn't however work with automatics. Stinger performance can set you up for under 1K and it will control the ECO and the 6R80. You have to have the PATS defeated. Do a search or even call Stinger they will tell you how to get it done. If you already have a manual T-Case in the Excursion, it probably has a ton of miles. so I would instead use a 2017 and newer superduty case as they come with a manual shift. They bolt right to the 6R80 or 6r100. I'm not a big believer in an electric motor shifting the transfercase when I need it most and if you get the correct vin from the newer Superduty some of the T-Cases have a neutral position as well. Mine does. Paid $500 to the door with 17K on it.
Here is what you should do because I'm helping you spend your money. Right now on ebay is a couple of Raptor 3.5 Eco's with 450 horse and 500 torque for $5500 that have an advertised zero mile takeout due to upgrading to a Supercharged V-8. Get that, a 6r80 or a 6r100 which would be better for your excursion (found in F250's with the 6.2L gas engine) and that superduty T-Case I mentioned and you will most likely be the only one in the world that has that combo. Remember I'm always here to help you spend your cash!
The pic has the Superduty T-Case 2017 (no slip yoke) and a 2011 F150 T-Case for comparison

https://www.stinger-performance.com/...rness-telorvek
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-Ford-R...7d90%7Ciid%3A1

 

This made me think there was a "but" coming.

Planning on using the 10R80 from the Raptor engine. I'll have to talk to stinger and see if they have any anything in the works for the 10R80

Mine is electric currently. I would prefer to keep it electric, just because I'm building an oversized center console to hold some gear/electronics. I do like this idea though. Is the concern for the Tcase over losing the wire connection or motor when you need it? Or a durability question?

My wife says the same thing.

This is my plan exactly, that is why I started this thread.

Yuge difference.

Thanks for the input.

 

Ford dealership technician here. I might not be of much help on the technical side of things, but I will throw out some things to think about.

The Excursion is a heavy duty SUV that is based off of Ford's Super Duty F-Series 3/4 and one ton platform. It was a vehicle that was intended to cater to those who desired an SUV but needed the capability to tow or haul the weight in the range of requirements of a 3/4 ton truck. The power train options for that truck was therefore spec'd accordingly. Ford's 3.5L Ecoboost V6, while proven to be a very desirable engine choice by many for quite a few F-150 owners since it's release beginning with the 2011 model year to present, has never been equipped in any of Ford's trucks of greater than 1/2 ton. For this reason alone, I would question the feasibility of the intended swap.

Lastly, for the amount of work and money needed to even think of committing to an undertaking of this magnitude, how much of a difference are you away financially from simply just getting into a newer Expedition that comes from factory equipped with the 3.5L Ecoboost V6, and 10 speed auto that you desire if you get into an '18? Will an Expedition described above, meet your needs while at the foregoing the headache of a major powerplant surgery?

 

Don't disagree with the assessment of the truck. I'll be doing very little pulling, and some off roading, including at elevation. Weight difference between the Raptor and Excursion is about 800lbs from what I can tell, without the net loss from the difference in powertrains, about 220lbs. Without gear I'll be close to 500lbs difference with a factory raptor. I'll have better power, more gears than stock, and significanltly more durable axles and frame than current expedion. Probably more cabin space as well, though I haven't researched that. The facory V10 was rated at 300hp/420tq. From my understanding the transmission doesn't necessarily care how much weight it has against it, only what the input torque amount is. I don't plan to have a radical tune, just a good reliable truck.

Agree that a current expedition may be cheaper. Not really concerned about it though because I've always wanted the Excursion. Just not a huge fan of diesel, and the V10 drivetrain doesn't do it for me. I haven't found a powertrain that is more prevalent, or cheaper, for the amount of performance that is achievable. Plus the internals are designed for boost, whereas a coyote, 6.2, etc aren't and the only way to achive that power is with forced induction.

Shoot more holes through it, That's why I was looking for opinions on this.

Thanks,

 

I too agree with the assessment above. Very valid points to consider but it sounds as though you have put a fair amount of thought into this. It won't be cheap. My in process Coyote swap has to be nearing 15k but I'm too afraid now to start adding up all my receipts. I'm not doing it from a feasibly stand point, I'm doing it because I can and because it's my hobby at the present time. Just last week I spent another $1400 on aftermarket AC. The Excursions are really getting hard to come by so breathing new life into it is a very cool thing. I'm looking forward to following this thread so please keep us updated.

Regarding the manually shifted T-case. I lived in Montana and Washington state and in the summer there are plenty of trails for 4x4 and in the winter it's a must. The 4x4 shift motor in my 1994 Ranger gave out I think 3 times in the course of 24 years. Also with a shift motor there is no neutral which can be a life saver if something breaks in the mountains. Not bad numbers but gave out regardless. Swapped to a manual T case from a 93 and problem solved. If you won't be spending a lot of time in 4x4 then I would say electronic shift is fine.

 

It would be a one of a kind vehicle. Could a larger turbo intercooler be added. I test drove a 2018 f150 ecoboost, 10 speed. Eye popping.

 

Judging by the tone of your post and response, you sound like a very educated individual who has done some very thorough research into your intended "project". I hear you loud and clear on the V10 not doing it for. Although a very solid engine overall, it does seem to be "yesterday's news" on the technical end of the spectrum....as is the vehicle it currently resides in at high mileage as you've indicated. While the 3.5L Ecoboost is a very solid little engine (save for the timing chain stretch once they have a few miles on them, and I've replaced my share), it is also one that install will quite literally involve installing everything on an F-150 attached by wire into its donor vehicle from my readings. This basically means installing not only installing the engine and transmission itself, but also the BCM, IPC as well as SCCM and maybe even ABS too. It may sound stupid, needing all the other non-engine related stuff, but at the end of the day, the PCM does communicate with all these other non-engine related modules exchanging information in some way to affect how it controls engine and transmission functions in more ways than you or I would have thought of. And yes, I have read the thread of the guy who went into detail about installing both the 3.5 and 2.7 Ecoboost V6 into old pickups. In my opinion, he did a fantastic job. I'll even admit that looking at the photos of where he dissects the wiring one by one to be quite daunting looking. The major difference here is, those vehicles are "play" vehicles for weekends and leisurely cruises, NOT a daily driver daily use vehicle where reliability is going to be a priority to consider. And I'm sure you don't need me telling you this, but once you've committed yourself to this, you're never going to recoup the cost of what you put into it, once you've started and then suddenly decide that the project has either gone way above your head, or taken a direction you weren't wanting it to take.

Lastly, there are rumors that Ford is bringing back the Excursion. What we do know at present, is that Ford filed a patent for that name last week, so I'm fairly certain the Excursion is about to be reintroduced in the near future.

The new for 2020 7.3L V8 gas engine added to the Super Duty truck lineup of engine choices sure is an interesting and unexpected direction for Ford Motor Company to take....

 

Could, not sure that I'll need to go that crazy. A tune on this should be well into the 500hp range, if needed.

 

A lot of hours. Been fun so far.

This has been resolved, or at least addressed, in the later gens with multiple chains, correct?

I've received some conflicting information on this. From a Ford Parts guy saying none of the modules are needed, besides ECM and TCM, to some Ecoboost tuning companies saying that it is desirable to purchase a donor vehicle, with everything connected, then delete all of those un-needed functions from the system. How certain are you regarding this? If so, this is a big deal on the time/expense required to perform this swap.

Great build thread. In some ways more a bodyswap than a drivetrain swap at least in the first truck.

I get it. I'm trying to avoid the over my head/ too much to handle conversation prior to starting it or buying the parts. Budget is definitely not unlimited, but I also understand that more than likely this is not going to be something that would sell for the cost of the parts, not even including my time. I'm OK with that as if it goes the way I plan, this will not be a vehicle I'll ever sale.

That's good news and to be expected in the low oil price environment we have. I just hope that it is a true-to-form modern version of the original. Maybe in a few years I'll have a new one to match my weekend truck

Absolutely. I briefly looked into finding a donor 7.3 from the 2020 truck, but they are just not prevalent enough. Let alone any assistance regarding the electronics.

 

Again order the stinger harness for the engine and transmission. 1k and ur running. Or get the control pack from ford 5, wires and your running and get the stand alone 10r80 tranny harness from power by the hour, none of the other garbage needs connecting. Get the engine with its stock harness and don't look back. The control pack although no longer available from Fords website may still be available and other dealers. No one I know that have the Eco in the Taurus SHO to include myself, have had these timing chain issues and we beat the **** outa these engines.
I check eBay every night I'm at work for the 7.3 Godzilla, have yet to see one, but if you could, that would be my overall choice. I'm thinking of a 78 or 79 Bronco with one. My next project perhaps

 

Check. I'll contact Stinger tomorrow. Agree that the 7.3 is unobtanium currently. There is one Godzilla for sale on Copart currently. Probably too nice of a truck to scrap. Lot #35283430 if you are interested.

 

Due to how new the GEN II versions of the 3.5 Ecoboost are, it's hard to tell for sure. But I will admit to never ever having to replace any timing chains on a 3.0L Duratec V6 that was used on pre-2013 model year Escapes as well as many other vehicles from the early 2000s and up. That V6 uses a chain per bank of three cylinders the way the GEN II 3.5 Ecoboost does. If you are interested, have a read through this thread:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...rt-rattle.html



For the record, I am NOT at all attempting to discourage or dissuade you from proceeding with your intended project, only to keep your eyes wide open if you do proceed. That said, you need to consider how much weight there is, to information coming from parts guys at the dealership. They are not technicians. Their only job is to sell parts, so whatever technical information they share with you, likely came from another technician or other source they deal with on a regular basis. My parts manager and senior parts guy asks me some very technical questions almost on a daily basis from time to time, while assisting outside customers. A helpful hint I've passed along to many customers over the years has been, if the parts guy's response to your question is, "......oh I haven't ever needed to sell one of those", chances are it's not the part you're after.

The conflicting answers you are getting to those questions are likely both correct, in that to achieve a fully functioning and running 3.5 Ecoboost COMPLETELY STOCK, YES you need everything that is tied into the PCM/TCM both directly and indirectly, and hence why a written off complete truck obtained would be desirable. Just to throw another curve ball into the mix which I hadn't thought of. What if the donor vehicle is equipped with IA (a k a "push button start" in Ford lingo)? Then it's not just PATS that you would need to bypass, but also RFR and RFA as well. It more than likely is correct that it can be achieved with only the PCM/TCM, but not without out-of-factory tuning involved. As to how well such tuning will enable the engine and transmission to function to your level of satisfaction will only be known if you do move forward.

Aftermarket tuning of course, is outside my scope of knowledge since I have no personal experience with same.


I couldn't agree more. And I must say I'm beyond impressed with the amount of time, labor and attention to even the littlest of details this man spent on all his projects. Oh and I forgot the most important, MONEY too, which it appears this man has a lot of, and it shows in the final result of all his projects.

Since you're interested in power train swaps, here's another thread that may interest you to read:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-o-pics-2.html

I know you're not a fan of oil burners, and to be honest, I have gotten beyond tired of reading those "how do I swap in a Cummins into my Ford" questions, but I have to admit, the member who did the Cummins swap into his Excursion in the thread linked above, also did a fantastic job as well. By the time he was all said and done with it, the end result appeared very turn-key, as though it came from factory that way, also sparing no time, expense or attention to detail. THAT was what really impressed me, not the kind of hack job swaps I've seen of other abortions.