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Here is the Ford control pack. Has the ecu, the electric gas pedal, and everything need to run the engine. I believe it even comes with a pre installed tune from ford performance. 4 wires and ur running. Connect the EFI fuel pump, 12V key on. HAAT lead from the battery, and connect the ground wire. Power by the hour has the controller for the 10R80.
Your existing engine harness plugs into the included ecu from the control pack. The picture doesn't show everything included
I know you're not a fan of oil burners, and to be honest, I have gotten beyond tired of reading those "how do I swap in a Cummins into my Ford" questions, but I have to admit, the member who did the Cummins swap into his Excursion in the thread linked above, also did a fantastic job as well. By the time he was all said and done with it, the end result appeared very turn-key, as though it came from factory that way, also sparing no time, expense or attention to detail. THAT was what really impressed me, not the kind of hack job swaps I've seen of other abortions.
I've read through that thread, and if I remember correctly he used to build some vehicles that went to SEMA. His attention to detail shows. That attention to detail is what I'm going for, at least on the drivetrain.
Not to derail the thread, but my biggest gripe is that most of the diesel benefits come from forced induction. Throw turbos on most gas engines and you can end up with a very diesel-like power curve. I get there are other factors to be considered like fuel economy and durability, but in reality, few ever really test the durability of their drivetrain to its end of life. The company we own has several diesel trucks and some heavy machinery; dealing with the diesel gelling in winter, cold starts, etc just gets old.
I do appreciate the input, and if I run into any issues on some of this I'll shoot you a question on here.
Here is the Ford control pack. Has the ecu, the electric gas pedal, and everything need to run the engine. I believe it even comes with a pre installed tune from ford performance. 4 wires and ur running. Connect the EFI fuel pump, 12V key on. HAAT lead from the battery, and connect the ground wire. Power by the hour has the controller for the 10R80.
Your existing engine harness plugs into the included ecu from the control pack. The picture doesn't show everything included
Think that's an issue where the module is only designed for up to MY2016 engines? The motor transmission I plan to acquire is the new port and direct injected. If that will work on later engines I'm all in.
Think that's an issue where the module is only designed for up to MY2016 engines? The motor transmission I plan to acquire is the new port and direct injected. If that will work on later engines I'm all in.
The GEN II version of the 3.5 Ecoboost is still only direct injected as far as I know. The only engines from Ford that are DPFI as far as I know are the 3.3L V6 and 5.0L V8 normally aspirated engines.
The GEN II version of the 3.5 Ecoboost is still only direct injected as far as I know. The only engines from Ford that are DPFI as far as I know are the 3.3L V6 and 5.0L V8 normally aspirated engines.
Here is the Ford control pack. Has the ecu, the electric gas pedal, and everything need to run the engine. I believe it even comes with a pre installed tune from ford performance. 4 wires and ur running. Connect the EFI fuel pump, 12V key on. HAAT lead from the battery, and connect the ground wire. Power by the hour has the controller for the 10R80.
Your existing engine harness plugs into the included ecu from the control pack. The picture doesn't show everything included
Ford Performance replied to my inquiry. No go, it won't work on the 2017+ trucks. I've got calls in to Stinger and one other possible vendor for this harness.
If I was looking to swap a newer ford powerplant into a newer ford I would get a entire donor from auction. With the excursion the forward section of the cow and doors are basically the same as the f150. So I would swap out dash and climate controls from the donor. Pretty much everything I could get to work like abs, airbags, seats...
Then look at the items that are different like steering. F150s use a rack with electric assist I believe. Basic body harness connections and possibly abs differences.
An entire frame swap from the f150 may be worth considering. You would lose the solid axle and 8 lug so that may be a no go from the start for you.
It also depends on what you want. Do you want a truck with no abs or airbags, old style gauges mounted where the gauge cluster was or truck that has has a very OEM feel and OEM features?
You also may have the skills to integrate the new engine harness with original trucks harness. If you do I would document it well and then sell the info to one of the aftermarket outfits because you will have a LOT of time invested that could be worth something.
Whatever you choose good luck and do a build thread so we can ride along!
If I was looking to swap a newer ford powerplant into a newer ford I would get a entire donor from auction. With the excursion the forward section of the cow and doors are basically the same as the f150. So I would swap out dash and climate controls from the donor. Pretty much everything I could get to work like abs, airbags, seats...
I agree with obtaining an entire vehicle with everything electrical completely intact, if I were even considering such a project like that described by the OP which would be far above my skillset. I disagree with your statement about the Excursion being similar to the F-150 however. The Excursion is based completely on Ford's Super Duty series of trucks that debuted in '98 as an early '99 model year release with completely redesigned chassis, body and drivetrains bearing ZERO similarity to the F-150 of that era. These are the series of trucks that are 3/4 ton and up, while the F-150 soldiered on, on its own having very recently receiving a complete redesign in '97, completely separating the body configuration that was previously shared with its 3/4 and one ton siblings. As far as swapping out the dash and climate controls from the donor is concerned? We are talking about marrying not only the drivetrain, but major electrical interior components from a three year old vehicle (the OP indicated he wants a Gen II 3.5 Ecoboost) into an 18 model year old vehicle. That by itself, would be a major headache in terms of fabrication to trim and wiring, without considering the mechanicals yet.
Originally Posted by Lrrr-RulerOfOmicronP
Then look at the items that are different like steering. F150s use a rack with electric assist I believe. Basic body harness connections and possibly abs differences.
BINGO!!! I hadn't even thought of that. As a matter of fact, NONE of the Super Duty lineup of trucks have used EPAS ever throughout the years, except on the 2020 Super Duty trucks, which isn't even a complete EPAS. If I'm not mistaken, they still use a conventional hydraulic power steering system even on the 2020 models, but have now added an electric assist to it. Nonetheless, this is a huge issue to take into consideration. The only vehicle I can think of that uses a conventional hydraulic power steering with the 3.5L Ecoboost from factory is the Transit. And even that vehicle uses the GEN I 3.5 Ecoboost, not the GEN II version the OP desires.
Originally Posted by Lrrr-RulerOfOmicronP
An entire frame swap from the f150 may be worth considering. You would lose the solid axle and 8 lug so that may be a no go from the start for you.
Doing as such would drastically reduce the Excursion's factory GVWR. How would it be registered legally after that?
Originally Posted by Lrrr-RulerOfOmicronP
It also depends on what you want. Do you want a truck with no abs or airbags, old style gauges mounted where the gauge cluster was or truck that has has a very OEM feel and OEM features?
You also may have the skills to integrate the new engine harness with original trucks harness.
My understanding, is the OP wants to repower his tired, factory original V10, high mileage Excursion with the GEN II 3.5 Ecoboost V6. It appears the OP has a love for this powerplant, but not wanting to let go of his Excursion. To be honest, I am extremely skeptical of his intended project for many reasons, the first and foremost being his intention of using it as his daily driver. For that reason alone, reliability will be a major consideration. The second reason being, the 3.5 Ecoboost V6 has never been offered as an option in anything heavier than a 1/2 ton from Ford so I have my doubts as to whether or not the engine (along with transmission and the rest of the driveline) will be durable enough to withstand the rigors of daily use in such a heavy vehicle as an Excursion for the long term. Third? Well, from my readings, the OP intends on deleting all the other modules that aren't "necessary" through aftermarket tuning wherever such can be obtained, for the sake of simplifying the electrical end of the project. However, the Excursion is modern enough that he would still need to contend with how to make the rest of the truck's factory electrical system function (speedometer along with all the rest of the factory gauges, ABS, air bag and restraint control system, speed control etc.). And to do so, he would now need to somehow be able to work around getting the GEN II 3.5's PCM/TCM "talk to" the rest of the Excursion's factory modules which still use networks, albeit far less advanced networks than a factory 2017 F-150's which uses multiple CAN BUSes. This by itself, would require the services of someone very literate to electronics and programming.
At the end of the day, it's not my money or truck. The owner has every right to do as he chooses/pleases. At least by now, he understands I've tried my best to pass along my knowledge as a dealership tech, with all the obstacles he faces, without sounding condescending.
Link talks some about cabs. I do not know the different between 00-02 cabs vs 2018ish but it may be a way to save some work IF the interior and controls from the f150 would basically bolt into the excursion.
Another benefit to this swap is I would imagine it would be capable of passing emissions if cats were used.
Due to how new the GEN II versions of the 3.5 Ecoboost are, it's hard to tell for sure. But I will admit to never ever having to replace any timing chains on a 3.0L Duratec V6 that was used on pre-2013 model year Escapes as well as many other vehicles from the early 2000s and up. That V6 uses a chain per bank of three cylinders the way the GEN II 3.5 Ecoboost does. If you are interested, have a read through this thread:
For the record, I am NOT at all attempting to discourage or dissuade you from proceeding with your intended project, only to keep your eyes wide open if you do proceed. That said, you need to consider how much weight there is, to information coming from parts guys at the dealership. They are not technicians. Their only job is to sell parts, so whatever technical information they share with you, likely came from another technician or other source they deal with on a regular basis. My parts manager and senior parts guy asks me some very technical questions almost on a daily basis from time to time, while assisting outside customers. A helpful hint I've passed along to many customers over the years has been, if the parts guy's response to your question is, "......oh I haven't ever needed to sell one of those", chances are it's not the part you're after.
The conflicting answers you are getting to those questions are likely both correct, in that to achieve a fully functioning and running 3.5 Ecoboost COMPLETELY STOCK, YES you need everything that is tied into the PCM/TCM both directly and indirectly, and hence why a written off complete truck obtained would be desirable. Just to throw another curve ball into the mix which I hadn't thought of. What if the donor vehicle is equipped with IA (a k a "push button start" in Ford lingo)? Then it's not just PATS that you would need to bypass, but also RFR and RFA as well. It more than likely is correct that it can be achieved with only the PCM/TCM, but not without out-of-factory tuning involved. As to how well such tuning will enable the engine and transmission to function to your level of satisfaction will only be known if you do move forward.
Aftermarket tuning of course, is outside my scope of knowledge since I have no personal experience with same.
I couldn't agree more. And I must say I'm beyond impressed with the amount of time, labor and attention to even the littlest of details this man spent on all his projects. Oh and I forgot the most important, MONEY too, which it appears this man has a lot of, and it shows in the final result of all his projects.
Since you're interested in power train swaps, here's another thread that may interest you to read:
I know you're not a fan of oil burners, and to be honest, I have gotten beyond tired of reading those "how do I swap in a Cummins into my Ford" questions, but I have to admit, the member who did the Cummins swap into his Excursion in the thread linked above, also did a fantastic job as well. By the time he was all said and done with it, the end result appeared very turn-key, as though it came from factory that way, also sparing no time, expense or attention to detail. THAT was what really impressed me, not the kind of hack job swaps I've seen of other abortions.
Highlighted portion of your comment is what makes me not to reply or even post. That could not be any further from the TRUTH. The reason I started the ecoboost builds is because of the cost vs going back to stock or rebuilding a stock engine then adding much needed overdrive etc. bigger brakes and other wanted options. It CAN be done spending big $$ but the way I have done it the complete opposite.
Fairly new member here, but have been reading around this forum a lot over the past few weeks. I've got an 02 high mileage Excursion that I purchased for a little of nothing. Its a V10 (305hp, 420tq) truck, that at the time of purchase I had the intention of doing a Cummins swap with. However, I'm now considering a 3.5EB with either the 6R80 or 10R80 from an F150. The power is well in excess of stock, without any tuning. There doesn't seem to be a lot of information readily organized regarding this type of swap, and was hoping to get some guidance.
1. Plan on purchasing the entire drivetrain, however I cannot determine whether I'll need any of the other electronics from the truck besides the ECM and TCM. (BCM?)
2. I've read about some great tuners, anyone have any recommendations for someone that has worked on this style of swap?
3. What are the thoughts on the 6R80 vs 10R80? I built a spreadsheet for final drive ratio with different tire sizes and rear ends, don't think it's going to matter from the gearing perspective. Planning on 3.73 with 35's, more than likely upgrading to dana 60's from the 05-10 truck.
4. Plan on reusing existing transfer case, with as much of the original body control functions.
5. Would you use an aftermarket EPAS on this size of a vehicle, or add a power steering pump to the EB? Anyone added a power steering pump to an EB?
Thanks
Hoodlum
Just found this thread a few minutes ago. I quickly read through it all. Going off quick read will make a few comments. First off being weight of vehicle. The V10 is a absolute boat anchor/tank. (i have owned a v-10 Excursion max mpg on highway steady cruise at 65-70 mph was best of 14.0 mpg around town/local closer to 10 mpg) So a HUGE advantage to start with is the 3.5 complete pan to intake is only 405 lbs. I think the V10 is closer to 1000 lbs have not weighed one but have weighed the lightning 5.4.
The 3.5 eco will absolutely run circles around the v10 in pretty much ANY circumstance. Anyone who says different has never owned both. Before my first eco swap truck I was using a pretty modded 2002 F250 4x2 7.3L I was shocked when I first hooked trailer to the eco swap truck then hooked it to the 7.3 truck. Large 26' enclosed trailer the 3.5 eco ran circles around it but I did not load it to max and climb the biggest hill I could find. I intentionally loaded trailer with 7.3 heavier on front and it was all over the road. Then hooked it to the swap truck and instantly the trailer sway control came on. Lets just say the next week I sold the 7.3 truck . . Will the new 6.7's compare to the 3.5? Absolutely no comparison 2020 6.7's rule the road but for no towing or light towing the 3.5 is hard to beat.
After custom billet converter, new valve body, tune, exhaust, air intake the 7.3 put down 319hp & 550 lb ft of torque. With just a tune on Eco1 it made 420 hp and 532 lb ft of torque and Eco1 had a HUGE weight advantage. Never looked back on the 7.3 which turned out to be most $$ per mile of any vehicle I have owned. (my 3rd 7.3)
some mentioned control pack. The GenII eco's do have dual fuel system so the control pack will not work.
I am now in middle of 4 more EcoSwaps all with 1966 chassis, body doing engine and trans swaps only. One may get a new chassis which I already have with clear title.
Eco1 was a whole bunch more than just installing cab n box on a new frame. After doing other swaps engine and trans only If I were to start from scratch it would happen again.
What is the WB of your excursion? (dont want to look it up)
A biggie for any swap is getting a complete swap. One of my current swaps is a one of five raptor 450/510 crate engines into my '66 short bed and make it to the point If I did not lift the hood it would be very hard to see even if one looked inside cab. I have the stock '66 shifter operating the 10R80 with everything else inside appearing stock. And yes it will have cruise control and hoping to get the Adaptive cruise working when I have funds to add the Front Radar device for the adaptive cruise.
When I open hood of this swap it will appear like it came that way with the raptor engine. Full smog legal with EVAP, CATS etc
I am running stock '66 frame with zero modifications same with body except a few tweaks on core support to make the Raptor radiator, condenser and fans to fit.
I have 3 other Eco swaps in process along with the 8.9L EcoBoost.
Best advice I can give is buy a complete Expedition or F150 with no damage to front engine bay area.
Prices I have paid for complete trucks
Eco1 6430 mile donor for 3250.00
Eco2 2500 mile 3.5, 6R80 and transfer case donated by FoMoCO (doing it this way ended up costing more than buying a donor)
Eco2.7 this truck was 2350.00 a low mile 4x4 its swapped into a 1966 F100 4x4 of course getting a bunch of options and electronics but keeping the stock body and chassis adding late model electronic locking diff, keeping the Dana 44 which I added the 14" donor F150 brakes too. Free large brakes! did it on the cheap under 50.00
Raptor F100 I bought a 4k mile 2018 F150 for 3250.00 along with the new crate engine just for the 10R80 I can then sell enough F150 parts to more than pay for complete truck and a big chunk of the crate engine.
I have the 4k mile 3.5 out of the '18. In process of getting it running as a package deal to sell to someone in need.
I also bought a very low mile 2018 F150 5.0 10R80 I had planned on using but after purchase it had such minimal damage I fixed the truck
Another point is someone said these trucks are not DAILY DRIVERS another non factual statement. Absolute daily drivers the Raptor F100 build is specifically for this and will see all lower 48 states in a single trip later this year.
Think that's an issue where the module is only designed for up to MY2016 engines? The motor transmission I plan to acquire is the new port and direct injected. If that will work on later engines I'm all in.
no worky. Nothing wrong with the factory PCM.
I do know where the last of the 5 Raptor Crate engines is if interested. Ford Performance only sold 5 of them . .complete turn key engine with engine wiring and even full of engine oil.
The tough part is if you have package you need engine and trans PCM, BCM, BJB TCM prior to 2019 and also 2 keys. If not its more of a hassle to have PATS turned off etc. Issue with that is it's not permanent and if scanned or programmed by dealer the PATS delete is now back on. A no start . .
UPDATE: EDIT your question RE: Power steering. Yes I have added it to current Raptor F100
Best advice I can give is buy a complete Expedition or F150 with no damage to front engine bay area.
Prices I have paid for complete trucks
Eco1 6430 mile donor for 3250.00
Eco2 2500 mile 3.5, 6R80 and transfer case donated by FoMoCO (doing it this way ended up costing more than buying a donor)
Eco2.7 this truck was 2350.00 a low mile 4x4 its swapped into a 1966 F100 4x4 of course getting a bunch of options and electronics but keeping the stock body and chassis adding late model electronic locking diff, keeping the Dana 44 which I added the 14" donor F150 brakes too. Free large brakes! did it on the cheap under 50.00
Raptor F100 I bought a 4k mile 2018 F150 for 3250.00 along with the new crate engine just for the 10R80 I can then sell enough F150 parts to more than pay for complete truck and a big chunk of the crate engine.
I have the 4k mile 3.5 out of the '18. In process of getting it running as a package deal to sell to someone in need.
I also bought a very low mile 2018 F150 5.0 10R80 I had planned on using but after purchase it had such minimal damage I fixed the truck
Another point is someone said these trucks are not DAILY DRIVERS another non factual statement. Absolute daily drivers the Raptor F100 build is specifically for this and will see all lower 48 states in a single trip later this year.
This!
People do not realize the benefit of donor... So much money saved on the small items. People also don't realize how cheap wrecked car/trucks go for at auction.
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Slideshow: Called the Fortress, the 850-horsepower pickup combines Raptor underpinnings with military-inspired features, survival equipment, and a starting price of $285,000.
