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The primary reason that you don't find small diesel generators is it's to hard on the engine when you operate for extended periods at less than 50% load, it just is no healthy.
I can see this from being in the ag equipment industry. Sort of like sizing tractors to work loads.
Originally Posted by EDC8008
Add to this that when you are under 50% load the machine does not respond well to high load starting inrush and then add that California Air Resource and EPA regulations have started to impact these areas also. For optimum performance and longevity try to size you generator so you are operating just above 50% of capacity. Key is also to be able to handle inrush on starts like for the AC unit.
Starting current is a challenge, for sure. A bit off topic - but at my cabins my little EU2200i Honda starts my well pump easier than my open frame. Why, I have no clue. Technically it is a lower-rated (running and starting wattage) unit than the open frame (I want to say the open frame is 2600-2800 starting - still not large, I know, but bigger than 2200).
Originally Posted by EDC8008
That's the industry standard, and we operate machines that are up to 50 years old. Most of the older ones are gone due to EPA restrictions.
What machines are 50 years old?
Originally Posted by EDC8008
For small portable generators Inverter types have a more stable sine wave so better for the electronics
I have been curious about this. I have an oscilloscope so one of these days I'll check the outputs under various loads and see what they look like. You would think a conventional alternator generator head producing 120vAC (in the case of my open frame - 3600rpm) at running speed would have a better sine wave as the head itself is producing the power. An inverter uses electronics, just like an inverter off a battery bank, to transform DC to AC. In that process the AC is filtered as the switching (from transistors) pulses DC (square wave*) in opposite polarities to create AC. Then capacitive filtering is used to stretch out the rise/fall times (charge time of the capacitors = stretch out time of the rise of the sine, discharge time of the capacitors = stretch out time of the drop of the sine) of the square to round it off to a sine wave. You would think a generator that produces the power inherently in the design, as in a conventional generator head, as opposed to trying to "force it" in an inverter circuit, would produce more stable AC... Just a thought. Ive heard the same before though - the inverters are pretty clean.
*Whether that square wave is a single rise/fall pulse or stair-stepped with 2 or more levels - it is still a pulse that needs filtering. A stair-stepped waveform, controlled well, may be able to produce a more accurate sine wave when filtered - but it still has to be filtered.
For what it is worth, here are a couple screen shots from my spectrum analyzer on the inverter generator that show the cleanliness of the inverter generator (EU2200i) at that range. If there were a dirty output (both in the filtering of the AC or the switching circuitry in the inverter causing self-resonance generating RFI) you would see it here. Have you ever noticed an AM/FM radio that looses a weak station when you plug in your cordless tool charger? Those charging circuits can create a lot of "noise" - just like a lot of power inverters as well. These are in the VHF range.
Clean noise floor with normal atmospheric noise on EU2200i (spike is a radio signal).
Dirty noise floor, to compare the clean one above to, from local generated noise (could be any number of sources - bad power line insulator, TV, computer power supply [switching], battery charger of some sort, etc). Taller spike is a radio signal. Higher noise floor and more "noise" - environmental/radiated, not from the generator.
I can see this from being in the ag equipment industry. Sort of like sizing tractors to work loads.
Starting current is a challenge, for sure. A bit off topic - but at my cabins my little EU2200i Honda starts my well pump easier than my open frame. Why, I have no clue. Technically it is a lower-rated (running and starting wattage) unit than the open frame (I want to say the open frame is 2600-2800 starting - still not large, I know, but bigger than 2200).
What machines are 50 years old?
I work the power industry as well as Oil & Gas, and work the big units, GE, Siemens, ABB, Mitsubishi, Fiat, Alstom, and am currently down installing a 850 MW plant down in Guadalajara right now. We always have issues on these construction sites as we have to start the projects on generators till we get back-feed from the grid. So we are always at the mercy of what is available. It's painful when your starter is 850 KW and the generator is only 1000, inrush will definitely do you in.
For a time I was working rental units from the old little Honda, (we used to provide these at golf tournaments for the cameras) up to 1500 KW trailer mounted. I had 2 sites in Washington State where we had 71, 1000 KW portables we ran for the utilities in 2000 and 2001.
Could have something to do with the mass of the rotating member. The little Honda's are actually real quick to respond as that little rotor and small crank shaft will speed up and respond better to the throttle changes.
I don't have a lot of the formal education to explain a lot but I've been doing this sort of work for over 42 years so I've seen a ton of it.
After I get my shop finished I'm headed to Ritchie Brothers next time they have an auction to get a Light cart so I can modify it for a backup at the house.
I already have a 4500 watt for my trailer but then when we travel I've spoiled the wife so she likes to stay at RV parks now.
It is somewhat different talking these small of a unit and it really comes down to finding something that works for you and you are happy with. Really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
We will be in the market for a small generator for our camper here soon. That said, I've had access to some older Honda 2000i generators, they were purchased around the time they came to market. After extended periods of sitting, the carb always gummed up, which meant I became fairly proficient at taking it out/cleaning it out. We did run them dry after the 2nd or 3rd time, knowing it was a problem. Once clean and running they were great though. Is this still a problem with honda generators? Fuel was just 87 octane with 10% ethanol, and I'm sure that contributed to the problem.
Originally Posted by KC8QVO
Good post and good question!
My buddy I sail with has 2 of those same units. That's what got me on to them - we ran them for a ham radio event called Field Day a number of years ago. We sailed up to an island on Lake Erie and set up there. His units are that "original" vintage.
They do not have fuel shut offs. When you turn the dial to shut down the generator the dial cuts the fuel and the spark at the same time.
The one I bought (new in 2019) has a 3 position dial now. Run/fuel on, Fuel Off, and Ignition Off. When you shut it down you turn it to the Fuel Off position - NOT the Ignition Off. This cuts the fuel supply and allows it to "run dry" without running fuel out of the tank, just what is in the carb and what comes out of the short piece of tube from the shut off point to the carb.
I forgot to post these pictures... This is the dial on the new style generators with the 3 positions.
On/Run
Fuel Off, Ignition On (used for running dry by cutting the fuel line off)
Everything off - including ignition. Use when you do not want to run the carb/bowl dry (quicker to restart if you kill in this position, but if you are going to leave sitting for a while then run it dry with the fuel off/ignition on position).
I forgot to post these pictures... This is the dial on the new style generators with the 3 positions.
On/Run
Fuel Off, Ignition On (used for running dry by cutting the fuel line off)
Everything off - including ignition. Use when you do not want to run the carb/bowl dry (quicker to restart if you kill in this position, but if you are going to leave sitting for a while then run it dry with the fuel off/ignition on position).
Thanks for sharing those images. If one was to use 100% gasoline and chose the first setting of fuel off ignition on and run until cutoff then storage of the unit should be good to 12 months+.
It appears I'm spoiled since I am in the Oklahoma region and have access to non ethanol fuel.
it appears most states don't feel non ethanol fuel is important in this day and age.
wow thanks @KC8QVO My Honda EU2200i has that switch, but I hadn't realized there was three positions. I thought it was ON or OFF. That will be handy when I'm putting it away for the winter.
wow thanks @KC8QVO My Honda EU2200i has that switch, but I hadn't realized there was three positions. I thought it was ON or OFF. That will be handy when I'm putting it away for the winter.
Look at your dial closely... Below is what the old style looks like. These went bye-bye because they didn't have the separate fuel off/ignition on position. When you turned the dial to the off position it cut both the ignition and the fuel = what led to all the old ones getting goobered up carbs.
Then again.. even on the new dials, if you don't know theres 3 positions, by turning it to "off" entirely (bypassing the fuel off/ignition on position) you do the same thing - cut both fuel and spark off at the same time. So that will lead to the same problem of not running the carb/bulb dry. That is unless you run the tank entirely dry...
We will be in the market for a small generator for our camper here soon. That said, I've had access to some older Honda 2000i generators, they were purchased around the time they came to market. After extended periods of sitting, the carb always gummed up, which meant I became fairly proficient at taking it out/cleaning it out. We did run them dry after the 2nd or 3rd time, knowing it was a problem. Once clean and running they were great though. Is this still a problem with honda generators? Fuel was just 87 octane with 10% ethanol, and I'm sure that contributed to the problem.
If you take the cover off, there is a little screw that you can back off to drain the carb bowl. The gas flows through a plastic tube to exit the unit. This keeps things from gumming up. Doesn't take more than a couple of minutes.
I have purchased 10 of these little inverter generators. Got very tired of the Hondas getting stolen off the trucks. We use these just to charge Milwaukee batteries and they work well. Noise wise it's very close to the Honda. I think all of them have 300+ hours on them so far and they still work just fine.
Does anyone have the older EU2000i model pictured below?
If so - I would imagine the dial "clicks" in to the "off" position. What happens if you start up the generator and rotate the dial close to the "off" position, but not "clicked in"? Will it run? Or does it, also, click in to the "on" position, where if you move it out of the clicked in/detent "on" position the ignition cuts off?
What I would be curious about is if you can start up the generator and move the dial down close to the "off" position and see if the generator will run itself out of fuel. This, on mine, takes about 3-4 minutes near idle. What I want to see is if the old style dials are actually cutting fuel off with that dial as you rotate it. If so - if you know that "work around" you, too, can run the generator "dry" by doing it, as opposed to killing the ignition or using the screw method that @acadianbob mentions to drain the bowl. The downside to even draining the bowl is the residual fuel between that and the cylinder is still present and will dry out, but it will keep the float/carb clearer.
Originally Posted by KC8QVO
Look at your dial closely... Below is what the old style looks like. These went bye-bye because they didn't have the separate fuel off/ignition on position. When you turned the dial to the off position it cut both the ignition and the fuel = what led to all the old ones getting goobered up carbs.
Then again.. even on the new dials, if you don't know theres 3 positions, by turning it to "off" entirely (bypassing the fuel off/ignition on position) you do the same thing - cut both fuel and spark off at the same time. So that will lead to the same problem of not running the carb/bulb dry. That is unless you run the tank entirely dry...
Does anyone have the older EU2000i model pictured below?
If so - I would imagine the dial "clicks" in to the "off" position. What happens if you start up the generator and rotate the dial close to the "off" position, but not "clicked in"? Will it run? Or does it, also, click in to the "on" position, where if you move it out of the clicked in/detent "on" position the ignition cuts off?
What I would be curious about is if you can start up the generator and move the dial down close to the "off" position and see if the generator will run itself out of fuel. This, on mine, takes about 3-4 minutes near idle. What I want to see is if the old style dials are actually cutting fuel off with that dial as you rotate it. If so - if you know that "work around" you, too, can run the generator "dry" by doing it, as opposed to killing the ignition or using the screw method that @acadianbob mentions to drain the bowl. The downside to even draining the bowl is the residual fuel between that and the cylinder is still present and will dry out, but it will keep the float/carb clearer.
I own both the old eu2000i and the new eu2200i.
The old will keep running till you actually turn the **** to the off position. The only way to get the fuel out of the carburetor is use the screw on the bottom of the carburetor to drain it.
There is if you wanted to add it on the feed line going to the carburetor, you would have to take the side cover off everytime to use it. Which wouldn't be that big of a deal. Just as easy to loosen a screw.
On a side note it is so easy to take the carb off and give it a good cleaning to remove any possible varnish once a year or change the elevation needle if needed.
@scraprat does the 2000 series burn all the fuel out of the carb? I think I read they are bad about that. Running the unit "out of gas" doesn't, leaving stale fuel to gum up in the carb. I have one, they are excellent generators but I haven't needed it in a few years now.
No it doesn't burn it all out. Here is a pic from my eu2000i from Nov when I cleaned it. I use my generator maybe a dozen times a year mainly in the winter months and run it for 2 hours at a time I got lazy the previous year and didn't clean the carburetor or drain the gas from the carburetor but use seafoam in the gas that goes into the generator. It was running rough. For folks that don't know there is a small brass tube that runs up through the middle with a few pin size holes in it for fuel distribution. It wasn't pretty in there, after some carb cleaner and a little brass brushing purrs like a kitten now.
the air filter assembly removed.
That was my experience with them as well ^^^, though I never saw that much sediment in the fuel bowl.
I found that the wire out of a bread bag's twist tie was about the right diameter to clean that brass pieces holes. I ended up taping one inside the cover of one, so I didn't have to go find a new one when it was time to fire up the generator.
