Differential Disaster
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From: Virginia
I personally would pull the old bearings off, look for factory shims, put the new bearings back on with the original shims, then temporarily put the carrier back in and measure your side to side play. It's been awhile since I did one of these, someone previously mentioned these bearings may have a pre-load spec. If that is true, you probably have to measure the resistance it has when you turn the carrier to measure the pre-load. If you need more pre-load, I would cut a brass shim and put between the housing and the bearing race. You can cut brass shim stock easily with tin snips. Fold it in half, cut a half-moon to fit and then unfold it.
Once you got that where you want it, I would get some of that glue stuff the other poster mentioned, slop it in there, and that should hold the race and the shims in place. I said "slop" but be careful not to get any in the bearing itself.
Once you got that where you want it, I would get some of that glue stuff the other poster mentioned, slop it in there, and that should hold the race and the shims in place. I said "slop" but be careful not to get any in the bearing itself.
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From: Angier, NC
The thing with set up bearing to set the shim packs is the final bearings you use have to be of the same manf. as the setup ones.
But you should also do a final check of the spec on back lash & pattern to make sure all is good.
I have done this more times than I like to say on a GM 10 bolt in my 86 K5 Blazer.
Dave ----
But you should also do a final check of the spec on back lash & pattern to make sure all is good.
I have done this more times than I like to say on a GM 10 bolt in my 86 K5 Blazer.
Dave ----
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From: Wolfsburg
The thing with set up bearing to set the shim packs is the final bearings you use have to be of the same manf. as the setup ones.
But you should also do a final check of the spec on back lash & pattern to make sure all is good.
I have done this more times than I like to say on a GM 10 bolt in my 86 K5 Blazer.
Dave ----
But you should also do a final check of the spec on back lash & pattern to make sure all is good.
I have done this more times than I like to say on a GM 10 bolt in my 86 K5 Blazer.
Dave ----
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Some more thoughts:
1) How does the "good" carrier bearing and race look? After thinking about all that debris embedded in the failed side, I'm wondering about all of the bearings now. I had been thinking you could replace (and reshim) just the carrier bearings and races, and not even have to touch the pinion shaft. But now I'm wondering if those bearings have also been damaged by the debris in the oil. This will increase the time and money spent on what may only be a temporary repair. That's why I'm asking about the good bearing and race on the carrier, as it may give you an idea about the pinion shaft bearings and races.
2) Will you be using a case spreader? I've only worked on Dana 27 and 44 axles, and you can reinstall the carrier by canting the carrier races and persuading the carrier into place with a big mallet. Not sure if the 60 housing will have enough flex for this method. But if you want to get a shim under the carrier race to compensate for the damage, you'll definitely need a case spreader.
3) How deep is the damage under the spun race? If not too deep, it might be a lot easier to compensate with extra shims under the bearing, versus trying to add a shim behind the race.
4) Can you see any shims between the bearings and the carrier? I have never heard of shims between the race and housing.
1) How does the "good" carrier bearing and race look? After thinking about all that debris embedded in the failed side, I'm wondering about all of the bearings now. I had been thinking you could replace (and reshim) just the carrier bearings and races, and not even have to touch the pinion shaft. But now I'm wondering if those bearings have also been damaged by the debris in the oil. This will increase the time and money spent on what may only be a temporary repair. That's why I'm asking about the good bearing and race on the carrier, as it may give you an idea about the pinion shaft bearings and races.
2) Will you be using a case spreader? I've only worked on Dana 27 and 44 axles, and you can reinstall the carrier by canting the carrier races and persuading the carrier into place with a big mallet. Not sure if the 60 housing will have enough flex for this method. But if you want to get a shim under the carrier race to compensate for the damage, you'll definitely need a case spreader.
3) How deep is the damage under the spun race? If not too deep, it might be a lot easier to compensate with extra shims under the bearing, versus trying to add a shim behind the race.
4) Can you see any shims between the bearings and the carrier? I have never heard of shims between the race and housing.
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From: Angier, NC
If you have the room and they fit ok it makes no difference where the shims go as pre-load is pre-load and to move the carrier or pinion they will also move with shims either place.
On an AMC 20, some call it a Dana 20, you can no longer get pinion bearing shims that go where the factory had them, think between bearing & pinion, so you put the only shims you can get under the bearing race in the housing. It works the same way of moving the pinion in or out as needed.
Think it is the GM 10 bolts that have the shims on the outside.
It is fun trying to keep shim packs together when pulling the carrier even with help as the carrier "POPS" out the shims go flying!
Dave ----
On an AMC 20, some call it a Dana 20, you can no longer get pinion bearing shims that go where the factory had them, think between bearing & pinion, so you put the only shims you can get under the bearing race in the housing. It works the same way of moving the pinion in or out as needed.
Think it is the GM 10 bolts that have the shims on the outside.
It is fun trying to keep shim packs together when pulling the carrier even with help as the carrier "POPS" out the shims go flying!
Dave ----
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From: Wolfsburg
Some more thoughts:
1) How does the "good" carrier bearing and race look? After thinking about all that debris embedded in the failed side, I'm wondering about all of the bearings now. I had been thinking you could replace (and reshim) just the carrier bearings and races, and not even have to touch the pinion shaft. But now I'm wondering if those bearings have also been damaged by the debris in the oil. This will increase the time and money spent on what may only be a temporary repair. That's why I'm asking about the good bearing and race on the carrier, as it may give you an idea about the pinion shaft bearings and races.
2) Will you be using a case spreader? I've only worked on Dana 27 and 44 axles, and you can reinstall the carrier by canting the carrier races and persuading the carrier into place with a big mallet. Not sure if the 60 housing will have enough flex for this method. But if you want to get a shim under the carrier race to compensate for the damage, you'll definitely need a case spreader.
3) How deep is the damage under the spun race? If not too deep, it might be a lot easier to compensate with extra shims under the bearing, versus trying to add a shim behind the race.
4) Can you see any shims between the bearings and the carrier? I have never heard of shims between the race and housing.
1) How does the "good" carrier bearing and race look? After thinking about all that debris embedded in the failed side, I'm wondering about all of the bearings now. I had been thinking you could replace (and reshim) just the carrier bearings and races, and not even have to touch the pinion shaft. But now I'm wondering if those bearings have also been damaged by the debris in the oil. This will increase the time and money spent on what may only be a temporary repair. That's why I'm asking about the good bearing and race on the carrier, as it may give you an idea about the pinion shaft bearings and races.
2) Will you be using a case spreader? I've only worked on Dana 27 and 44 axles, and you can reinstall the carrier by canting the carrier races and persuading the carrier into place with a big mallet. Not sure if the 60 housing will have enough flex for this method. But if you want to get a shim under the carrier race to compensate for the damage, you'll definitely need a case spreader.
3) How deep is the damage under the spun race? If not too deep, it might be a lot easier to compensate with extra shims under the bearing, versus trying to add a shim behind the race.
4) Can you see any shims between the bearings and the carrier? I have never heard of shims between the race and housing.
2) I don't have a case spreader and have actually never seen them used on a dana 60 axle. My plan was to go with a mallet.
3) I haven't measured it yet, but I would say 2-3mm (0.07 to 0.12 inch) I thought about just shimming it under the bearing too, that would seem a lot tidier. I don't think it will cause trouble with the bearing being too far off of its seat.
4) I can't actually see any shims under there, but I will have to take the bearings off to confirm. I am getting a bearing splitter and a press this week to do that and will update ya'll
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From: Wolfsburg
If you have the room and they fit ok it makes no difference where the shims go as pre-load is pre-load and to move the carrier or pinion they will also move with shims either place.
On an AMC 20, some call it a Dana 20, you can no longer get pinion bearing shims that go where the factory had them, think between bearing & pinion, so you put the only shims you can get under the bearing race in the housing. It works the same way of moving the pinion in or out as needed.
Think it is the GM 10 bolts that have the shims on the outside.
It is fun trying to keep shim packs together when pulling the carrier even with help as the carrier "POPS" out the shims go flying!
Dave ----
On an AMC 20, some call it a Dana 20, you can no longer get pinion bearing shims that go where the factory had them, think between bearing & pinion, so you put the only shims you can get under the bearing race in the housing. It works the same way of moving the pinion in or out as needed.
Think it is the GM 10 bolts that have the shims on the outside.
It is fun trying to keep shim packs together when pulling the carrier even with help as the carrier "POPS" out the shims go flying!
Dave ----
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From: springfield Missouri area
I've also had mixed results with set-up bearings. You can find them commercially available for some sizes, with a slightly oversized inner note for an easy slip fit. But if you try making them yourself, good luck. The material is too hard to cut with ordinary tooling on a metal lathe. Even expensive carbide tooling barely makes a dent.
I tried using a brake cylinder hone, to grind away the bore instead of cutting. Mostly this just wore down the stones and left the bearings with a sloppy bellmouth-shaped bore.
So in hindsight, for all that aggravation, it's probably easier to just use the new bearings.
If you do use set-up bearings, measure the assembled stack height of the bearing and race together. You'll need a micrometer or very accurate calipers. Compare this stack height to the new bearings and races. Expect to find up to .010" difference. Adjust the final shim packs to compensate for this difference.
I tried using a brake cylinder hone, to grind away the bore instead of cutting. Mostly this just wore down the stones and left the bearings with a sloppy bellmouth-shaped bore.
So in hindsight, for all that aggravation, it's probably easier to just use the new bearings.
If you do use set-up bearings, measure the assembled stack height of the bearing and race together. You'll need a micrometer or very accurate calipers. Compare this stack height to the new bearings and races. Expect to find up to .010" difference. Adjust the final shim packs to compensate for this difference.
I made some set up bearings, I took race and bearing to my local machine shop. clamped the race and the bearing together with vise grips on the edge to hole them together. Had my machinist hone them out on the rod hone. took about 5 to 10 minutes on each. been working great for years.
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Joined: Feb 2019
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From: Wolfsburg
So I took a die grinder to the housing today and ground down the little inside ridge so that I can slide the diff in without it catching. I did not have much time today, but I put the carrier in once and pushed it side to side.
The side play is horrendous. I can see the bearing coming out of its race by about 1/8 of an inch. I have some shims to go under the bearing, but not a ton. I also have some shims that I could put on the outside. Between the carrier and the housing. I got some tools in today, so tomorrow I will be pressing off the bad bearing and putting on some more shims. I am just worried that the bearing will be quite a bit off it's seat if I compensate for the play by just adding shims between the race and the carrier. I am leaning towards adding shims between the housing and the race as well. What do y'all think?
I'll put some pictures up of my hack job tommrrow.
The side play is horrendous. I can see the bearing coming out of its race by about 1/8 of an inch. I have some shims to go under the bearing, but not a ton. I also have some shims that I could put on the outside. Between the carrier and the housing. I got some tools in today, so tomorrow I will be pressing off the bad bearing and putting on some more shims. I am just worried that the bearing will be quite a bit off it's seat if I compensate for the play by just adding shims between the race and the carrier. I am leaning towards adding shims between the housing and the race as well. What do y'all think?
I'll put some pictures up of my hack job tommrrow.
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From: Virginia
I didn't realize there was that much wear in the housing. Do you think you could take the old bearing race, and take a grinder and grind it down thinner till it slipped in there and took the slop out?
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From: Wolfsburg
Like making a shim out of it?
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From: Wolfsburg
Alright. I had a little bit of time on my hand and wanted to try something out.
I pressed the bad bearing off the carrier (Which came off quite suddenly and in a burst of spacers and flat stock flying everywhere, quite the show) and threw some shims under there. Not measured specifically, just about what the bearing had taken off the housing. Then I pressed the bearing back on and tried in in the ousing.
And behold. It actually took a mallet to get the thing in there. Put the caps on and tested it. The preload is quite strong and it takes effort to turn the carrier. The backlash is substantially better.
Now that I know how to fix it, the next question is: How do I set the bearing preload? I have never read anything about it in the manuals. They just kinda say to set the pinion preload and then throw the carrier in there and make sure the bearings have preload.
I am guessing that the carrier preload is not as important as the pinion, but can not be neglected.
My hack job has to last a few months, so might as well try a little bit lol.
I pressed the bad bearing off the carrier (Which came off quite suddenly and in a burst of spacers and flat stock flying everywhere, quite the show) and threw some shims under there. Not measured specifically, just about what the bearing had taken off the housing. Then I pressed the bearing back on and tried in in the ousing.
And behold. It actually took a mallet to get the thing in there. Put the caps on and tested it. The preload is quite strong and it takes effort to turn the carrier. The backlash is substantially better.
Now that I know how to fix it, the next question is: How do I set the bearing preload? I have never read anything about it in the manuals. They just kinda say to set the pinion preload and then throw the carrier in there and make sure the bearings have preload.
I am guessing that the carrier preload is not as important as the pinion, but can not be neglected.
My hack job has to last a few months, so might as well try a little bit lol.
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From: Virginia
You would be surprised how long sometimes things like this will last. I will do some searching, I believe you guys said you watched some videos on how to set these things up? I do know setting something like a steering box pre-load requires you to have a inch-pound scale or some other way to measure the drag. When you pound it in there the ring gear should have a small resistance to it. I think the key is to have some drag, but not too much or it will overheat the bearings. If you have some drag to it, I bet it will work.
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From: Wolfsburg
You would be surprised how long sometimes things like this will last. I will do some searching, I believe you guys said you watched some videos on how to set these things up? I do know setting something like a steering box pre-load requires you to have a inch-pound scale or some other way to measure the drag. When you pound it in there the ring gear should have a small resistance to it. I think the key is to have some drag, but not too much or it will overheat the bearings. If you have some drag to it, I bet it will work.
I thought about this realistically. This diff is shot. Everything i do is probably going to be an improvement.
In my head, if I just throw in some shims under the bad bearing, to get a good amount of preload by feel, it should be ready to be put back together, right. The contact pattern is set by the shims that are placed under the right side carrier and the pinion. So that should be fine. I measured the backlash with the new preload and it was 10 thou. So pretty good.
I kinda feel like spending an exsessive amount of time on this is just wasted time. I know I changed my mind from literally my last post, but sometimes reality strikes lol.
Thank you Franklin, you made me go for the more logical route again. You seem to be my voice of reason lol.