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That particular chart applies to the old school lead-acid batteries, the kind with filler caps to add water.
Maintenance free sealed batteries have a slightly different chemistry and plate alloy materials etc. 12.6 volts in this instance represents only about a 75% charge, it's important to charge any battery up completely, and particularly in the case of a sealed battery since specific gravity testing isn't possible.
So far with Everstart Max, vented but not able to refill, they have maxed out at 12.7v, typically 12.6v after the float is gone doing 24hr to 48hr charges. The point I’m trying to make is just because you can’t refill the battery doesn’t necessarily dictate the chemistry. At $96 per battery, I’m not expecting the best chemistry.
New batteries are "hard" and don't reach full rated current capacity until maybe a dozen or so start cycles, I charge them overnight before installation and keep charging them through this period, they should reach an OCV of 12.8 if they are a sealed battery. At least that's been my experience. I brought this up, because after a couple months it may be permanent sulfation will prevent the battery from ever reaching full capacity.
Yeah, these have been through the "break-in". Even after a month or so, doing the maintainer thing over a weekend, these Everstarts never broke 12.7v. I really don't think they have the top chemistry, not that we'll ever find out through Walmart.
The Everstart Maxx batteries I bought are identical in weight and all physical aspects to the Deka branded batteries.
Older Everstart Maxx batteries, those with the vent caps, were made by Johnson Controls/Interstate. When Johnson Controls sold the Interstate brand to the formerly bankrupt Exide Corp. Walmart apparently started buying from East Penn.
From past experience, I had far better results with the Everstart branded batteries than I did with Interstate branded batteries. Not sure why.
I've got two Everstart Max batteries that are nearly 10 years old now and still going strong, both made by Johnson Controls/Interstate.
The tell tale sign of the East Penn made batteries is the lack of vent caps and the vents on each end of the cap area.
Something definitely changes in these batteries once they.ve been in the truck.. With brand new batteries, they charge up to 12.72 and settle out at 12.65.
They went four days in the the truck, driven only about 12 miles. I parked it, turned off the battery switch but didn't put them on the maintainer.
Monday morning I had to move the truck to get to my van, I turned on the batteries, cycled the glow plugs, (47 degrees in the garage), and I moved the truck out to the road, got out the van, then restarted the truck and put it back in the garage. I again turned off the batteries but didn't put it on the maintainer. I got home with the van about 6 hours later. I again turned on the truck batteries, and tried to move it out of the garage but it cranked about three times and died, with the batteries too weak to start the truck. I parked the van outside, and put the truck on charge with the batteries disconnected. It sat on charge for 12 hours, that was enough to start the truck and get the van back in the garage. I went to back the truck inside again and it wouldn't start.
I went to Walmart and bought two fresh batteries and put both Deka batteries on charge.
I put the Walmart batteries in the truck three days ago, I haven't left the yard with it. I put them in the truck, started it up, ran it for about 10 minutes or so, turned it around and pulled it forward into the garage and turned off the batteries. The battery switch is the same manual switch they use in emergency vehicles and boats, it has OFF, Both On, Bat1, and Bat2, positions, When its off, no power goes to or from the batteries. I also put two 10ga pigtails on each side of the grill so I can connect two battery maintainers. (When the batteries are off, the batteries are separated).
I had the Deka batteries charging for 39 hours each on an 6 amp portable charger, and I did the same for the two Everstart Maxx batteries I bought the other day.
The Everstart batteries are four days old, the Deka batteries are just under 2 weeks old.
I had the two Everstart batteries on charge for the past 24 hours. They tested out at 12.64v right off the charger and they settled down to 12.19 each after four hours, still not connected to the truck. I turned on the switch, let the glow plugs cycle and gauges prove out but didn't start the truck. The batteries after the glow plug cycle are at 11.89 volts each disconnected. They did not recover any voltage sitting. I just took both back to Walmart, they told me they need to be charged and refused to replace them, the same thing the Deka dealer told me.
I now have all four batteries on charge on the bench on four separate chargers like the one in the pic below.
(I have 7 of these chargers, in both Sears and Schauer versions, and several in 10 amp and 12 amp as well).
All but this one 6 amp pictured were new old stock in the box when I bought them at a local hardware store a couple years ago.
They work far better than the modern 'automatic' chargers which refuse to charge these batteries giving me a DEF BATT warning.
I also have several wheeled multi voltage booster/chargers but like the 10 amp portables they boil the batteries over in short order on even the lowest settings.
Inerestingly, a pair of Interstate batteries which I removed when I gave up and bought the first set of Deka batteries seem to have recovered after being on trickle charge for a month back then. I charged them and let them sit. They test 12.56 v after sitting for over a month.
Also, if I load test just one battery, even when discharged and down to 11.89 volts, it only drops to about 10.59v using a Snap On hand held load tester.
In comparison, my one tractor uses a single group 24 battery, the battery is two years old. I hadn't used that machine in over a year, so I figured I'd check the battery and it on charge. The volts were 11.99v, I put it on a 5 amp similar charger for 6 hours and it bounced right back up to 12.71v. I started it, moved it around a bit, excised all the hydraulics and parked it. It ran for about 15 minutes. When I turned it off, the battery was at 12.89v. It settled out to 12.55v after a few hours.
I don't see why these batteries from this truck don't recover like that. I simply can't seem to get the voltage back up after they're discharged.
Years ago we bought 'dry charged' batteries with the acid in a separate container. You filled the battery and touched it to a 12v source and it was up and ready to start the car. Now they can't make a battery that lasts a week?
I can't believe I've had 7 pair of bad batteries, or two bad alternators, or two bad starters.
I also tried putting a pair of batteries that came out of the '03 into my 1997 and once they've been in the 03, they will start that truck but they do not recover and hold volts any better. Both trucks, one a 7.3, the other a 6.0L both have very similar glow plug and starter draws. The difference is that the 97 7.3L truck recovers almost instantly from a cold start. Its batteries are back up to over 12.5 v in minutes. Its charging system however will not recover the batteries that have been in the '03. I've now spent the better part of two weeks fussing with this truck and its batteries with no fix in sight.
As you can see on the meter of this charger, like the other four, the battery which was reading 11.89 volts, doesn't put a very big load on the charger, even though the battery is too low to start the truck or survive another glow plug cycle. When I charged the drained battery on my tractor, the amp meter on the charger nearly pegged for the first hour or so. That's never the case with the batteries out of the 03 F250.
If I put the same charger on one battery out of the 97 7.3L F350, which have never been a problem, the meter barely moves. It never drops below 3a on any battery that's been in the 03 F250.
I've got three modern chargers, none will charge these batteries when they've been discharged. They all give an error code saying the batteries are bad.
Modern chargers are garbage as far as I'm concerned.
The battery chemistry here is nothing new, these are your run of the mill lead acid sealed/vented battery.
One obvious difference is that the newer batteries are lighter than older batteries of the same size. I've got two old dead Motorcraft BXT65 batteries that came in my 1997 when new, those are a good 25 lbs heavier than any of the brand new batteries from Deka, Interstate, or Walmart.
I was told by someone who works at East Penn Battery in PA that they build and label the Walmart batteries along side the Deka batteries, which is irrelevant here since I've bought both and both give me the same issue.
These battery chargers put out 15.3 v without a load, as do most chargers I tested. The newer testers won't even start the charge process and can't be tested for voltage.
If the battery chargers are the problem, then why do they work fine for every other battery I ever charged? The very chargers I'm using on the truck batteries are what I used to charge up the tractor battery, which is older and was more discharged than these truck batteries but it came right back up and charged in four hours. It load tests and recovers instantly from 12.63 to 12.41 after being hit with a 300amp load. The batteries out of the 03 truck won't do this, they stay discharged and never recover.
Besides, if charging a pair of batteries, (disconnected from the truck), doesn't bring them to full charge, then what will?
I've got dozen of chargers around here, the Schauer chargers from the 60's and 70's are the best I've found. If I hit the batteries with more amps they overheat and spew acid out the vent. I can only leave the 10a chargers on for about 4 hours, and I get an overheated battery, lost acid, and a higher float charge that depletes back down to under 12v as the battery cools.
I have a two bank battery maintainer from Battery Tender, it cost me $90. It burned up the first night it was connected. Its a 1.5a per battery unit and it tries to maintain 12.56 volts or there about. It never shut off. Once the batteries are in the truck the batteries never seem to be at more than 12.31v after the first start. Regardless of the fact that the alternator is pumping out 14.8 volts.
(For arguments sake, since someone mentioned that the alternator shouldn't be at 14.8v all the time, I tested several of my other Ford vehicles. I got 14.5v full time out of my Crown Vic, 14.52v on my Linc. T/C, 14.6v on the 1997 F350 diesel, and 14.2 volts out of my 1986 F150, none of which have ever had this problem).
What it boils down to:
The truck is charging 14.8v
The glow plugs are working as they should as is the relay.
I have three pairs of batteries here all doing the same thing in only this vehicle
The batteries seem to refuse to take a charge or to gain voltage without being left on charge for 30+ hours and they refuse to maintain a proper voltage once cooled from the charger. However, they do 'pass' a load test for minimum voltage. (If they dropped below 10.5v on a 300a load test I'd say they were bad, but they don't even when their low on voltage.
When the batteries from Walmart were new, they read 12.73 volts. I put them on charge that night, they came off the charger reading 12.77v.
I installed them, and put the truck in the garage. They never again have been able to attain 12.7v. I same for the Deka batteries.
I've been around vehicles and equipment my whole life, I worked for 30 years in dealerships for both trucks and heavy equipment.
If a customer vehicle came in like this I'd condemn the batteries.
I own two Snap On EEC500A chargers, both give an error code on batteries out of this truck. It will charge them if I start charging them on an old manual battery charger but the battery then overheats once the Snap On charger takes over. Its trying to push 15a into the battery and it won't take it. It seems to work okay on deep cycle boat batteries but not on car/truck batteries.
The (dealer) tech thought maybe the alternator wasn't putting out clean rectified voltage, possibly putting ac volts to the batteries, but he couldn't prove it so they hung an alternator and regulator.
I messed around a bit with the "dumb" chargers that Sears/Schumacher and everybody else sold for years. Look at the published charging tables for a typical automotive starting battery, and monitor the charging voltage and current on a discharged battery or whatever.
They had this stuff pegged 50 years ago. They are just about perfect in terms of end point voltage, at least in cold temperatures - exactly when these things were usually employed. "Back in the day" - carburetors, points ignition, generator charging systems - getting your car started on a cold winter morning was a dicey affair unless one kept a sharp tune. Dead batteries were very common, and everybody carried jumper cables, and wished they had a garage.
What the charger people for Sears and Wards did was size the transformer for a reasonably fast charging capacity of about 10% of the ampere hour capacity of a standard size car battery - so 4 to 6 amps is common, without getting out of the safe zone. A battery will draw just as much current as you can provide - 50 amps, whatever. It will charge VERY fast - and warp plates. Gets you going in a hurry, though not good for a battery.
Battery charging voltage is very much temperature dependent. Keep in mind every published spec you read about is based on a "standard" temperature of 77° F. This includes measuring the open circuit voltage, cranking test voltage, charging voltage, and specific gravity testing. Correction factors apply above or below this figure, and by quite a lot.
As the temperature decreases the internal resistance of the battery goes up, and so must the charging voltage to compensate. 14.8 is OK at 70° F, but on a 90° with underhood temperatures it's way too much. But at 0° F. it may be too low, the way the chargers work is the current starts out high (at whatever its rated at) and the voltage low.
As the battery accepts the charge the current tapers off, and the voltage rises. The battery approaches a full charge and starts outgassing freely. This is normal and necessary.
How high the voltage will rise is based on transformer size, and temperature. The "dumb" chargers lack only a timer, and I agree they have their advantages over the modern gee-whiz-bang genius chargers. I use both or several, depending. My old Sears will top out north of 17 volts in the summer (bad!) but it looks like in subzero or below zero weather it could be left connected practically indefinitely, the voltage rise is limited to the 14 volt area.
Still not a good idea, but due to correction factor applied for temperature or increased internal resistance 14+ volts is barely even a float charge when temperatures get below zero. It's possible to overcharge or boil a battery dry with these but it takes dedication.
That's right, constant current initially, constant voltage to float charge. The good thing about the new chargers is that they can take everything into account, and are safer. If you forget to turn off the dumb charger bad things can happen - like when I went into the garage and found bits of battery all over it. Glad I wasn't inside when that happened.
The new alternator from Ford came out of the box without a regulator, the tech had to install it separately. So yes, I paid for both the alt. and regulator. Since it was a brand new Motorcraft alternator, there was no core so I put the old one in the truck. I took that alternator to a local auto electric place that rebuilds alternators and starters and they told me there's nothing wrong with it, he was able to bench test it up to 117 amps.
He did say that this problem is common on personal trucks, he said I'd be better off upgrading to a 'large frame' alternator with at least 140 amps.
But he also said that won't fix the battery situation since he too felt the batteries are at fault. He also did a voltage drop test and said there's nothing wrong with the truck other than the battery voltage was a bit low at rest. With the new alternator, and then with two fresh batteries from the dealer, not 20 miles later the truck was charging at 53 amps and 14.8 volts but the batteries were sitting at 12.15 volts after shutting the truck off.
That was when the Deka batteries went in it. They were fine for a few weeks but started the same thing after it sat here for three weeks. At that point the battery switch was installed.
That's right, constant current initially, constant voltage to float charge. The good thing about the new chargers is that they can take everything into account, and are safer. If you forget to turn off the dumb charger bad things can happen - like when I went into the garage and found bits of battery all over it. Glad I wasn't inside when that happened.
WIth a 5 or 6amp dumb charger, I don't think its capable of doing many bad things to a pair of larger batteries like these. The battery maintainer system Ive got supplies a constant 2 amp and can't seem to keep up. It overheats trying to charge these batteries and shuts off.
I've got three 'smart' chargers, one is a Snap On, one is Diehard, the other a Schumacher charger. All off these show an error code when trying to charge a depleted battery. They either give a faulty battery warning or just a general fault. I have various types of dumb chargers, the 5 & 6 amp models have no timer, the 10 amp chargers have 12 hour timers, hey charge at 10 amp for the amount of time set on the timer, then drop to 2 amps after that. I've also got some newer 10/20/150 chargers that have two charge rates and a boost position. Those are made by Schumacher as well and are about 15 years old. They don't work well at all, they're not strong enough to start most engines and the charge rates are both too high and over heat the battery pretty fast.
It seems to take about 31 hours to get one of these batteries from 11.89v up to 12.65v.
Yesterday I disconnected both batteries, put both on the bench and put each one on a separate charger. At about 29 hours they hit 12.60 v. I left them for another hour and disconnected the chargers. The standing voltage was 13.2. right off the charger, it quickly dropped to 12.60. I put both batteries back in the truck and started it up. After start up, the battery voltage on the scan tool read 13.7v. My amp probe showed it was charging at 67 amps out of the alternator, I let it run for 40 minutes in the warm garage. (Yes, I have exhaust hoses).
I shut it down, and checked battery voltage and got 12.15 v at the batteries. I disconnected both batteries and checked for any draw, and got .023 amps, just as always.
Bridging the negative terminal and disconnected cable with the opposite battery disconnected with a test light does not light the bulb.
As the battteries sat for a bit the voltage dropped down to 12.01 and they seem to have stabilized.
I don't see where a larger alternator will help, its charging a 67 amps after the glow plug cycle and start, the runing volts is perfectly normal, if not a tad bit low. There is no draw and both batteries had just come off a full charge.
Something that I completely don't get is that even with the lower volts, the load test voltage doesn't look that bad. Even when the batteries are reading at 12.15v, they still load check at 11.02v.
Two things I don't understand here, first is why or how an alternator that's pumping 67 amps at 14.7 volts isn't increasing the battery voltage in the batteries, and why after just a couple starts a brand new pair of batteries that came off the shelf new at 12.65 v will now only hold 12.15v.
When it comes to test equipment, I have four load testers, an older VAT-40, plus a Snap On battery test center, dozens of chargers, and 6 multi-meters here, Two are Snap On, one is Fluke, two are Radio Shack, one is from CE. Plus I've got the factory NGS scan tool, two OTC scan tools, as well as an older Snap On scanner. I got the NGS when a buddy who spent 20 years as a service manager at a local dealer retired.
It seems to me that the alternator should be putting more into these batteries than it is. I've even tried adding a second cable from the alternator to the batteries but it did nothing. I also think that a battery should be holding at least 12.5 volts after being charged. Every other vehicle in this yard does that just fine. Its only batteries that have been in this truck that don't. I feel that when I put a pair of these new batteries that wouldn't charge in this truck into my 1997 with a power stroke, and they wouldn't attain the same voltage that the batteries I took out did. Its as if the instant the batteries spend time in this truck they're damaged in some way?
I can start and stop the 1997 7.3L F350 10 times and not have a problem getting it started again, on this 03, I can't make three starts before it just clicks the starter.
Worse yet, when it fails to start, it screws up the dash and all memory in the truck. I can't see how the voltage dropping to 11.89 under load will erase the radio and clock memory, screw up the dash gauges and set off the ABS light. That third start attempt does the same thing as completely disconnecting the batteries.
@6.0L(btw... it is quite remarkable that this user name remained unclaimed for the entire 18 years since the 6.0L was officially announced)
Can you please post the Ford service (blue label) and/or Motorcraft (red label) Part Number(s) to the alternator that shipped new in the box without a voltage regulator?
Can you also please post the Ford service (blue label) and/or Motorcraft (red label) Part Number(s) to the voltage regulator that you paid to have installed?
Was the labor charge to open up the alternator to install the regulator a separate line item labor code / charge from the labor code / charge to install the alternator itself?
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