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I'm building my '56 and am updating the drivetrain. I have a 1989 302 roller motor that has had the bottom end rebuilt. Now I'm deciding on heads, cam, and fuel system.
I've got an AOD and limited slip 8.8 with 3.27 gears. I really want a cruiser that sounds good, runs great, and has a little bit of seat-of-the pants power.
My engine builder is recommending aluminum heads with a Ford e303 cam. I'm wondering if anyone has done similar setup and how it has worked out? Also curious if anyone has done different top end (i.e. gt40 heads) and thoughts on that?
Yeah, I read that. Edelbrock makes a great top end kit for the non-roller motor but not for the later model one I have. I would love to have that setup for mine!
An E 303 cam was a pretty good cam 20 years ago but I think their might be some newer grinds available due to always changing technology. Are you going to change the torque converter to something a little looser ? That cam, AOD with a stock converter and a 3:27 gear won't be real enjoyable to drive IMO. The AOD is notoriously clunky going into OD because it's not controlled electronically. A non lock up converter can help a little, but you'll increase the RPMs a couple hundred in overdrive. GT 40 Heads are a good choice but you'll have a ton of money invested in them to make them flow like aluminum heads out of the box. Im currently running 2 AOD's , one in a Mustang and one in my F1, both vehicles have 3:89 gears otherwise they are pretty doggie / choppy feeling at the bottom. I think aluminum heads and the E303 cam make a nice combination but you'll need to improve the rest of the drivetrain in order to get what you're looking for.
One thing for sure Camshafts are something that 2 people never agree on.
Cam choices should be made after you have determined what heads , intake , induction and exhaust is going to be used . Comp cams " cam quest " is quite interesting to play with different combo's as it will give you a brief description of best usage plus rpm range , torque and hp .
The single most common mistake is too much induction and for that most carb companies have carb find program .
My brother did something similar to what you're talking about with his fox mustang build. He took a stock 302 out of an Explorer or Mountaineer. He removed the fuel injection system and put a carb and old intake he had sitting around. He did replace the cam, though I don't remember which, and he replaced the valves and springs to match. Other than that he used the stock GT40p heads that came with it. It sounded monstrous with the dumps he had on it, and it made pretty great power. Later he added a Weiand blower and the thing was almost undriveable.
The lesson I took from what he did was that if you're looking for some punch, the stock motor already has a pretty good one in it. These motors can make incredible power if you build them to do so, but it costs you of course. It sounds to me like what you want is a cruiser that sounds mean and if you want to smoke the tires you can do that. To be honest, the stock motor will do that for you, it made about 220 HP when it was in the Mustang it probably came out of.
My advice is to keep it simple, unless you're an experienced engine builder that really wants to do something different. You can buy matched intake/head/carb/cam packages that are literally bolt on and you don't need to worry about clearances, durations, and stuff like that. Those GT heads are plenty good if you're looking to stay under 300 HP, which I would argue will be more than you really even want for the application you're using. You might want to check on springs that will match what you're looking to do with the cam. Springs and valves aren't very expensive. If the heads need to be machined, then you might look at new ones to see what the difference in cost is. Frankly, if the heads are good right now, you should be able to get a mild cam that will work with what is already in there. The great news is that if the motor doesn't give you what you want, you can pull the heads and put new ones on without taking the motor out. You can sell them on Craigslist or at a swap meet, those heads are pretty popular because they do work pretty will for medium builds.
The best news of all is that if there is a motor you want to build, the 302 is probably the one that has the most parts available to play with, they're plentiful and cheap. You'll be happy with whatever you do!
The claim to fame the E303 cam had was it was designed by Ford engineers to give maximum power increases on a stock engine, AND work without modification to the EFI and engine management used at that time. It was the original plug and play camshaft. When electronic engine management was new, this was a big deal, and something the aftermarket hadn't quite figured out yet. If you're planning to run a Ford EFI system and are looking for a good mannered, powerful street engine, I don't think you can go wrong with it, even after all these years.
I would be interested to know more details of what your engine builders recommendations are? Which aluminum heads is he recommending? Has he built engines with the parts he's recommending? How did they work? If he's got the experience and background to back up his recommendations, it could be more valuable than 10 guy's opinions from a forum. No insult intended to the brain trust here, 'cause there's some good advice here, but there is truth to the old adage 'too many cooks spoil the broth' and you can get confused. The most important thing to keep in mind is to have matched parts that work, and play, well together, for your intended application and use.
My brother did something similar to what you're talking about with his fox mustang build. He took a stock 302 out of an Explorer or Mountaineer. He removed the fuel injection system and put a carb and old intake he had sitting around. He did replace the cam, though I don't remember which, and he replaced the valves and springs to match. Other than that he used the stock GT40p heads that came with it. It sounded monstrous with the dumps he had on it, and it made pretty great power. Later he added a Weiand blower and the thing was almost undriveable.
The lesson I took from what he did was that if you're looking for some punch, the stock motor already has a pretty good one in it. These motors can make incredible power if you build them to do so, but it costs you of course. It sounds to me like what you want is a cruiser that sounds mean and if you want to smoke the tires you can do that. To be honest, the stock motor will do that for you, it made about 220 HP when it was in the Mustang it probably came out of.
My advice is to keep it simple, unless you're an experienced engine builder that really wants to do something different. You can buy matched intake/head/carb/cam packages that are literally bolt on and you don't need to worry about clearances, durations, and stuff like that. Those GT heads are plenty good if you're looking to stay under 300 HP, which I would argue will be more than you really even want for the application you're using. You might want to check on springs that will match what you're looking to do with the cam. Springs and valves aren't very expensive. If the heads need to be machined, then you might look at new ones to see what the difference in cost is. Frankly, if the heads are good right now, you should be able to get a mild cam that will work with what is already in there. The great news is that if the motor doesn't give you what you want, you can pull the heads and put new ones on without taking the motor out. You can sell them on Craigslist or at a swap meet, those heads are pretty popular because they do work pretty will for medium builds.
The best news of all is that if there is a motor you want to build, the 302 is probably the one that has the most parts available to play with, they're plentiful and cheap. You'll be happy with whatever you do!
You hit the nail on the head as far as what I want out of the motor. It came out of a crown Vic and the stock heads are not worth using. I may use a c4 behind it rather than the AOD. The big decision right now is whether or not I want to step up in expense to the aluminum heads or track down a set of the gt40's and have them rebuilt for this application.
The claim to fame the E303 cam had was it was designed by Ford engineers to give maximum power increases on a stock engine, AND work without modification to the EFI and engine management used at that time. It was the original plug and play camshaft. When electronic engine management was new, this was a big deal, and something the aftermarket hadn't quite figured out yet. If you're planning to run a Ford EFI system and are looking for a good mannered, powerful street engine, I don't think you can go wrong with it, even after all these years.
I would be interested to know more details of what your engine builders recommendations are? Which aluminum heads is he recommending? Has he built engines with the parts he's recommending? How did they work? If he's got the experience and background to back up his recommendations, it could be more valuable than 10 guy's opinions from a forum. No insult intended to the brain trust here, 'cause there's some good advice here, but there is truth to the old adage 'too many cooks spoil the broth' and you can get confused. The most important thing to keep in mind is to have matched parts that work, and play, well together, for your intended application and use.
I've done several projects with the builder over the years and he designs the build around what my intentions are for the vehicle. As we chatted about some options he floated the idea of the 303 cam. In my research it seems like it might be a bit much for how I want to use the truck. I won't be using stock efi and will likely run the Holley sniper setup.
I've been on the fence about the aod. It was included with the truck but I really like the c4's and think it might be a better way to go with the rear end I have and the motor I'm building.
If you're building heads, then your best bet will probably to buy new aluminum ones. If your builder is doing it for you and you get really good pricing, then maybe he can build you something in the same ball park. But if I was going to spend $2k on heads, I'd probably get new ones that are done and matched to whatever cam and carb/FI you're going to use. Those AOD transmissions aren't bad, I had one in my 84 Mustang. They're popular with hot rodders because they're plentiful, parts are easy to get, and they have an overdrive gear which is nice for cruising. If it's in good condition I wouldn't hesitate to use it for a driver.
An E 303 cam was a pretty good cam 20 years ago but I think their might be some newer grinds available due to always changing technology. Are you going to change the torque converter to something a little looser ? That cam, AOD with a stock converter and a 3:27 gear won't be real enjoyable to drive IMO. The AOD is notoriously clunky going into OD because it's not controlled electronically. A non lock up converter can help a little, but you'll increase the RPMs a couple hundred in overdrive. GT 40 Heads are a good choice but you'll have a ton of money invested in them to make them flow like aluminum heads out of the box. Im currently running 2 AOD's , one in a Mustang and one in my F1, both vehicles have 3:89 gears otherwise they are pretty doggie / choppy feeling at the bottom. I think aluminum heads and the E303 cam make a nice combination but you'll need to improve the rest of the drivetrain in order to get what you're looking for.
One thing for sure Camshafts are something that 2 people never agree on.
I would agree on the AOD with the 3.89 gears. In my case it is a gm stroked 350 (383) engine with the AOD and 3.70 rear.
I have an 83 Mustang that I built a mild motor for using and Explorer block, E303 cam, and GT40P heads. It's a blast to drive, with tons of low-RPM torque, and good power up to about 5500 RPM. With that being said, the GT40P heads are a giant pain in the rear when it comes to headers because of the strange spark plug angle. If you're looking for something that sounds good and has good low-RPM power the Explorer engine with stock GT40 (not GT40P)heads and either the B303 or the E303 cam is a good budget-friendly build. There are "better" cams out there, but camshaft performance ultimately depends on the cylinder heads. You can make all the power you want, it's only limited by your budget...
Also, that AOD will behave much better with a shift kit. I have one in my truck, and before the shift kit it acted like it was always trying to get to 3rd and OD as quick as possible. I bought a valve body from Performance Automatic, and now it behaves much better, especially when I'm pushing hard on the gas. Downshifts are better, and it just feels better all around. The hardest part of an AOD is adjusting the TV linkage, and there are tons of articles about how to do it correctly. I used a Lokar TV cable, and followed their instructions. I bought the transmission used with unknown mileage, but I have put over 8,000 miles on it with no problems.
Low end torque is definitely what I'm looking for.
As for the AOD, if I use it then it will need a rebuild and I'll have to change rear end gears which will end up being a full rebuild too. If I pick up a working c4 then it's pretty much plug and play with no mods needed to the rear end. The c4 with 3.27 gears and 27" tires will put me at about 2,400 rpm at 60mph.
