Hi Y'all .. Good Mornin' ..

My truck is having issues, I've never had any problems like this with the motor, the symptoms are very confusing to me. hopefully someone has had some similar issues or just some ideas to help figurin' just what's goin on here..

It's been goin' on about 4 weeks, started by sounding like an exhaust leak, with one extra pop out of the exhaust and a steady, annoying misfire. It got a little worse and I started noticing a pop also from the intake, when I lift the air cleaner lid 1/8 of an inch, it sucks it down and pushes it back up with the rythim of the engine. I can feel the air chuffing back out of the intake manifold.

It's getting too bad to drive now, but I have horded supplies the last few weeks and a little money, so I am taking this time to fix it. Going to tear her down and get to the bottom of it before something breaks.



I thought it was the head gaskets, they are certainly leaking alot, but then again they have been for along time. so I'm not really sure at all. It's 'chuffing' or 'popping' out of BOTH the intake and the exhaust. like an exhaust leak out of both sides. so I was thinking maybe a break in the gasket between 2 cylinders causing the cylinder pressure to escape to the neighboring cylinder when it was in the intake valve open stage.

but I have no Idea, could it be a bent intake valve, a lifter, would it pop out of one or the other and not both?

I'm trying to narrow things down what this is as much as I can. I took off the valve covers and run it, all the rockers and springs APPEAR to be okay.

I didn't hear any chuffing back up at the springs. everything looked okay visually.

Is a bad lifter capable of doing something like this? I know each set of rockers is tied together, but could one bad lifter affect the sister valve like that.

the sound is pretty much impossible to pinpoint, it seems to be coming from inside the motor, but reflecting out through the exhaust and intake.

Probably not, IDK at all, could this be a very strange injection pump issue? I doubt it just thinking out all the possibilities, it's not smoking or stalling like l'd expect from a typical IP problem, but has anyone experienced symptoms like that.

another clue, yesterday, after stopping about 10 minutes, at startup, it ran about 5 seconds, then COUGH run run run COUGH, like someone stuck a 2x4 in the cylinder, hard feelable miss, then it started knocking, like a bottom end knock.

I shut it down, expecting disaster, said a little prayer, fired it up and she was doing fine again. what could cause a knock knock knock like that?

I've never had to open her up beside external engine repair, this doesn't look like a fun job getting the heads off with as little room as there seems to be in the engine bay. I will be reusing the head bolts and valley pan gasket, I know.. got some permatex aviation form a gasket, is that the best for this job or would for some reason rtv be better in this situation.



no overheating or smoke, yes to much oil seeping.

if/ when I pull the heads is coolant going to dump down into the engine if I don't drain the radiator some?

advice, tips tricks and recommendations wanted, thanks . Leroy


I will post short vids when I can figure out how to format them a smaller.

 

Here are the vids ..

 

I have my old IP, it ran, smoke and stuttered, but it ran, and didn't cause any chuffing or knock. so I think I'll put it back on to make sure it is still misbehaving in the same manner, so that at least I'll know that it's in the motor and not a fuel delivery problem.
loosening individual injectors yeilded no noticeable difference in running.

Probably a busted HG, I guess I'll probably be able to find visual indicators of what's wrong when I pull the heads.

 

do a compression Check

 

my first suspicions is Valve train, but my hearing is really Toast from working Jet engines in Choppers, and it's way worse now at my age.

I doubt it is the Injection pump.

since it is not smoking then that pretty much says none of the injectors are leaking excessively


EDIT: I have seen the tip of a glow plug lodge itself on a valve seat before and cause the valve not to seat properly, BUT that normally will correct itself pretty quick.
A Compression check Will tell you a good bit about what is going on.

 

Yes, I am leaning towards valve train also, there's a distinct sewing machine type metallic sound, accompanying the misfire. I just hope it's easy to identify when it's opened up.

My understanding is that compression testing is done through the gp holes, and I never wanted to open that can of worms, I'm sure they're swol' up, but while I have the heads off, I will pull them, and break the tips off so they'll no longer be an issue.

 

you can do compression test thru GP hole or the injector hole.. even with the heads off you cannot see the ends of the GP's as the Precombustion cup hides them.

you can at least Test the Plugs with a test light and if they test good then they are probably not Swollen too bad. I like to soak em with WD-40 or PB Blaster first IF they have been installed for a long period.

 

I definitely agree, it'd be nice to do a compression test, and normally I would, but for sure I know something is wrong in there, so I just ordered parts and tools, paid bills, and stocked up on supplies, so it's going to be expensive and I can't really afford to buy a tester also when I pretty much know I'm going in anyway. I just hope it's evident what the problem is once I'm inside.

I will pull the gp's and break them off while the heads are off, that way if they if they snap, I should be able to ****** the tip out of the pre- cup, right? Is there enough room to pull the tip out with a tool?

 

yeah .... IF the heads are off you won't have problems getting the Glow Plug Pieces out as you can tap the Cups out of the head IF needed.

 

AND YOU SHOULD!
But you don't know what it is, which is why you should do a compression test which will lead you more directly to the problem and likely save you some time.
That is understandable but all you really need is enough money to make a deposit on a rental compression tester for a day or two from a parts store and possibly buy a brass adapter to screw into an injector hole. If you don't have enough money for a deposit, it would be a guaranteed loan for anyone who could help you by making the deposit and they would get it back in full, every penny, when you return the tester. If they put it on their debit card for example, the money would be returned directly to their checking account within 24 hrs (in my experience), of when you return the tool. (You probably already know that)
All the MORE REASON to do a compression test FIRST. The problem may not be readily apparent upon initial visual inspections, in which case a compression test first, might help lead you more directly to the problem.

That is how I would approach it, as part of a logical diagnostic steps approach, if I was in the same situation. I do understand your reasoning and I think that approach would be OK as long as you you do a close and thorough inspection, and hopefully the issue(s) will be very obvious.

NOW, that being said, if I remember correctly, you have been using ether at times to start your truck.
WHAT CAN HAPPEN when using either to start these engines? What I mean is, what sorts of internal damages can occur? I think I remember someone mentioning 'broken glow plug tip' in one of the starting fluid (ether) related discussion topics, but I'm not certain about that.

You might be facing some issue related to using starting fluid/ether to get the engine started. That's something I would look into by reviewing some of those topics.
So even if you find a defect in the head gasket(s) between cylinders, there could be something else there too.

As someone else mentioned, I don't think you will have any problems getting the old glow plugs out.

GOOD LUCK, LEROY

 

Okay, okay, let me see if I can rig something up. I have my hvac gauges, an old injector that I can gut, and some injector hardlines. I will see if I have an extra process stub somewhere and if I can find one, I'll cut and braze it together to make a tester, I had a few extra, but some walked away, hopefully have some more here somewhere.

 

I'm leaning towards lifters, just because that's the most common problem for this issue.

Secondly if you're gonna be that far into it I'd pull the cam and make sure it didn't wipe a lobe, or two

Harbor freight sells a compression tester to use the glow plug hole for $30, I have one and it works fine

 

I'll reply to this when I get back from a Dr. appt. which I am running late in getting ready for. ALSO will send a private email to you when I get back in about 3-4 hrs.
MEANWHILE read my response to DarkOverCast.

 

Last time I dealt with these issues was in my 1983 full size Jeep Cherokee with a 258 CID in-line six cylinder engine. I had personally put about 300k miles on it and kept in running well because I depended out in very remote areas of mountains and deserts. Later on, in the city I discovered that there was a lifter issue (stuck lifters not pumping up all of the way) at the cylinder closest to the Firewall and later observed the two worn cam lobes for the same cylinder.

THIS IS HOW I KNEW: With the valve cover OFF and the engine running at a slow idle I could get a close look at the rockers while the engine was running. Looking very closely *I could see* that the back two rockers were not lifting as high as the rest of them.
I used an additive, by Rislone or something similar to free up the sticking lifters and that worked pretty well but not for a long time. Maybe 6 months. I wasn't using the Jeep any longer, kept it in storage so I didn't replace the cam and sold the whole vehicle for $200 to someone who wanted the entire frame and drive train for a project using a different body.

My point here (which is also a question) is: I THINK that if a lifter or two is not fully pumping up in one of these IDI engines and/or a cam lobe or two are worn down a person should be able to detect this by closely observing the rockers while the engine is running at a slow idle.

Another possible way to check this would be to take some good resolution videos of the rocker assembly in motion, from a series of different horizontal camera angles, holding the camera very steady and THEN examine the videos on a computer screen where you can actually use a ruler placed against the screen to measure the lift of the individual rockers and make comparisons.

I think that in Leroy's case, since the problem is so pronounced that if it's lifters and/or worn cam lobes this should be pretty obvious with such an method of observation. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

If you have the valve covers off, Leroy, You might want to check that.
GOTTA GO, I'm running late for that Dr. appt.

 

just a note here...IF you use a Strobe Timing light you can see the Valve action a whole lot better
it's an Old Skool thing......

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