This is a screenshot of my torque pro cam phaser monitoring dash. I was looking for opinions as to the status of the cam phasers in my truck. This is while towing 2K lbs. I was startled by the high negative count. Is this a pending disaster? Is it time to replace my cam phasers?
Bought the truck 4mos ago with 148K miles, currently it has 153K miles. There's a bit of knock and rattle on start up, which I assume is the timing set, but everything settles down seconds after. It drives smooth, sounds good(to my non mechanics ear), shifts good, everything seems fine. I started looking into this forum as a curiosity shortly after I bought the truck, and got torque pro after a bit of reading to keep an eye on potential cam phaser issues. I have no idea what has been done to this truck before me, I bought it at auction for $5,000. Shortly after I bought it I noticed a grinding sound in the rear end, which a service remedied. After that it would jolt a bit while cruising down the road after it warmed up, two coil packs remedied that issue. While the coil packs were being swapped I had the plugs changed. Everything is fine, apparently, but such high negative numbers in the "VCT1ERRT" and "VCT2ERRT" dials have me concearned. Should I be?

 

While towing a 2K lb lawnmower trailer

 

This is while driving normally, without towing anything.

 

First, congratulations on your purchase. Sounds like you got a heck of a deal, even if it required a timing job immediately (cost about $1,400 to $2,000) would leave you far less cost per mile than I can brag about.

I'm assuming your truck has a 5.4L?

No one can guarantee but let me semi put your mind at ease. I made it to 212k miles after _noticing_ early timing symptoms (worse than you report) around 185,000 miles. Your growing negative VCT error totalizer numbers are 'noteworthy' but not a death warrant. They must put in perspective with operating time and conditions. As the developer of this dashboard, allow me to provide some helpful background.

The dials seemed neat and seemed to indicate everything was working fine - until I got my first P0022 DTC (~200k). I could clear codes and it would go some time before occurring again - and as you say, it ran good, smooth, everything seemed fine. It began to SHUT OFF "VCTENA" - and the PCM would cease to issue RCAM at all during the remainder of that drive cycle. (Turn switch off and restart, and it was good to go again). Research indicated that DTC codes - over retard and over advanced results when a Cam is 5 camshaft degrees or more OFF from RCAM, for more than 5 seconds. But that is hard to visually 'CATCH' watching the neat dials move around while you are driving. ___SO___ I created my own Custom PIDs "VCT1ERRT" and "VCT2ERRT" to keep continuous running totals of ALL individual Torque Pro scans of VCT Error gauge PIDs. At first - my totals would 'explode' to way too large very quickly. So I added a devide by 10 to the formula to 'dampen' it. This is NOT an OBDII signal generated by the PCM. It is custom programming in Torque as follows:

NOW - consider this: It is totally UN-sceintific, and (superficially) means nothing concrete. It Depends on how long the screen has been on, how fast your android device is reading PIDs per second, how many gauges torque is displaying an on and on. HOWEVER - in a perfect world - cam error should swing a little positive and negative as cams are commanded to move to advance or retard an equal number of times (much like fuel trims). So I theorized the number should increment in both directions with the NET result zero. AND an accumulation in negative direction would indicate the cams were spending more time over-retarded, and conversely would mean over advanced. The specific number is pretty irrelevant. Just that if it is negative, your cams are NOT moving in the advance direction (back to base position) when RCAM drops or returns to zero - as efficiently as they are moving from the advanced position to the retard position..

Does that alone mean you have a problem. _NO_. Perhaps in conjunction with other symptoms or over time. EVEN after a timing DTC occurs and CEL is set, you can bring up this screen and everything can appear fine. P0012 and P0022 are 'sticky' even if cams later get in sync with RCAM. For reference: My truck, 31K miles post complete timing job, 243k miles, running perfectly, accumulated -100 on one cam and -75 on the other over a 35 mile drive cycle recently. On another similar trip - one was +20 and the other -15, but in both cases the number was both above and below zero at some point or another.

Other 'tid bits' of subtle information appear in the dashboard - tempered with the fact your screens are mere 'snapshots' and may have been only a brief condition. AS an EXAMPLE: in your last screen RCAM 2 & 1 are within .1 degree (good). VCTERR 2 & 1 are likewise within 1 degree (good). BUT bank 2 VCT solenoid is requiring 47.5% duty cycle to maintain cam position while Bank1 is requiring 43.6% (at the instant of the screenshot). If too persistent this would indicate Bank 2 is taking MORE VCT oil flow to position that cam.

I would recommend:
Make double dog sure you do NOT allow misfires to develop and/or persist (They will trash plastic guides)
Do a couple of short term engine flush with cheap oil and filter, then fill with 5w30 Synthetic and Motorcraft Filter. Repeat flush every other oil change after that at 5k intervals.
Monitor for worse startup rattle - or marbles in a coffee can sound around 1500 rpm in neutral (chain contacting front cover)
Keep driving it until you have worse symptoms OR DTCs.

 

Thanks for your reply, and seriously thanks for developing this dash. I'm no rocket scientist, all my appreciable skills in this world revolve around placing well aimed gunfire at a specific point down range. So for your dash to make the concept of cam phaser retard, oil flow demand, and give me a general understanding of what all this means is a serious accomplishment. Bank 2 consistently requires more oil flow. I've got 14 gals of Castrol and 2 motorcraft oil filters standing by. I was going to do a change after adding a bit of engine detergent; sea foam, or maybe something you could recommend?? Drive for 500 Mike's then do it again. I broke down and bought everything needed for a timing job; all oem timing parts, including a Melling hv pump and pick up tube, new oem water pump, vct solenoids, lash adjusters and followers, and even billet chain guides and billet tensioners from MMR. I'm hoping to pass this truck on to my 11yo son so I want this to last. I'm hoping two rapid successive oil changes with some kind of detergent will clear out whatever gunk is sticking around in there before I do the change. Love the truck, it's my first ford. Any detergent you recommend? I figure after the two changes if both banks' demand for oil equals out I'll have cleaned some gunk out. What do you recommend?
PS this data was accrued over a 30 min trip or so, I get similar data when towing from one house to the next as I mow lawns. I only get those extreme numbers while towing.

 

About any kind of Flush detergent will do IMHO. I think Kreen is really good but not readily available and expensive as hell. I've used Motor Mechanic. I like the really thin alcohol smelling stuff. Technique might be more important that the stuff. I pour the stuff in hot engine on the way to homebase (maybe 50 miles out) to circulate the stuff good. In the driveway - in second gear - if you torque up you will see cams go to retard. When you let off, they will go back to base (NO retard). That 'squishes' oil into and out of the phaser chambers and through both sides of the VCT solenoids. I do that a bunch of times and then let it set overnight. Next morning, crank and let warm up 5 - 10 minutes then drain and change. I'm serious - I still do this every other oil change.

Wow - you got all the right kinds of parts ready. I think you actually could get lots of miles before having to do timing job. Mine sounded like a diesel so bad people would ask "What's wrong with your truck!". It finally got the rough idle (cams not balanced), random misfires pretty bad, unbalanced fuel trims, and chain guides were all in my oil pan - chain rattle. But I did exactly the parts you mentioned and 30k later you still can't hear it idling when you walk by it - 243k.

Your imbalance in VCTDC could possibly be cured with new VCT solenoids. And they can still be reused when you do the timing job. You could have one with a partially clogged screen, requiring slightly more duty cycle to position the spool valve inside it to allow enough oil flow. Just a thought.

 

I'll check out kreen and motor mechanic. Your technique makes sense, I'll copy it. The first time I opened up my oil fill spout I got horribly depressed. Inside the cap it looked like someone had drank chocolate syrup out if the cap and replaced it on the engine. There was a thick layer of black tar sludge coating the entire inside of the cap. Initially I was going to try replacing just the VCT solenoids to quiet down the initial startup rattle and knock. After seeing the condition of the inside of the cap I figured that nasty sludge coating would be consistent throughout the entire engine and simply clog up the screens on my new VCT solenoids and the noise would be back. I read alot of threads of how owners replaced the VCTs and rejoiced at how that quieted their engines down, only to have the noise return in a week or two as the sludge from the rest of the engine clogged up the screens on their new VCTs.
As far as having plenty more time left before the timing job becomes necessary, well, my decision to go forward with the repair is two fold. First I don't want any damage to occur to the engine as it's timing guts deteriorate. I'm worried I'll get small pieces of chain guides lodged in the oil journals throughout the engine. Second; I run a small one man lawn service, and I don't want to be broke down on the side of the road with a 2K lb trailer. My truck is all I have for towing the trailer and that would be a complicated situation. Thirdly; I'm just a bit of a stickler for my stuff being in the best shape possible, it's killing me to know it's not top condition.
I've thought since I've owned the truck that if it had 50-75 more HP it would be perfect. I know there's simply no traditional performance upgrade that the 5.4L 3V motor will accept, so I'm hoping that doing the timing job will free up some lost power and create the impression of a power boost. maybe sometime down the road I'll get a tuner and some custom tunes but I'd have to travel because there's no dino facility near by.
But I digress, after the successive oil changes I'll let you know if that equaled out my readings for cam retard demand and response. I wish the '04 had a true oil pressure reading that torque pro could display, I think that would be the best indicator of the status of oil flow. The addition of a guage for oil pressure is next on the list of to-do's.