Hi all. Just a disclaimer (or two). I know nothing about diesel engines. My stepson (18yo) is adamant that he wants a diesel truck and because he's done a little research he thinks he's an expert.

So, here's my question. He brings up bulletproofing and says that this makes the engine stronger and last longer. He is looking at a 2005 F250 XLT Supercab (I thought maybe lariat or king ranch), has leather, with just over 105k miles for $10k with a 6.0. Seemed to run good, some oil on the engine, but not a lot.

So what is it and how is it done? We did find out when taking this truck to his friend's shop that it's not bulletproofed by the lack of hex nuts or whatever.

Then also, what will it cost to get done? I know different shops, different parts and different prices. Just a rough idea. He found a kit for $1200, how much would we expect for labor?

Thanks for any input.

 

I speak from experience the 6.0 is a good engine but you need to know there is definitely things to check on a used truck. There is so many variables when the term bullet proof is mentioned. For me my 6.0 had a cracked head at 120k, so two heads, gaskets, ARP studs, egr cooler, oil cooler and it was just shy of 7k to have done. Bullet proofing also doesn't do anything for the other common items like injectors, HPOP or FICM and those cost some good money.

If you go into a used 6.0 try to get it on the low side knowing you will need to have some money available for the inevitable repairs. It's not a truck I would suggest to anyone that can't afford some repairs. I got another 100k out of mine before the bed plate started to leak and I sold the truck. There is so many variables it's hard to account for them all. There is even guys pushing 200k on here with stock head gaskets.

 

Before buying, he should verify if the oil cooler is plugged. This requires a little knowledge and a phone app w/ OBDII adapter to read engine parameters. If the oil cooler is plugged or plugging, then an EXTENSIVE flush of the cooling system will be required, and very likely that a new oil cooler will be required. When you get the gauges, first verify that coolant and oil temps are about the same on a COMPLETELY cold engine. Checking on the oil cooler means to get the engine completely hot (takes around 20 minutes of driving for the oil temperature to stabilize. Then get the coolant and oil temperature readings when driving at a constant highway speed. The oil should not be more than 15 degrees hotter than the coolant (and IMO it should be 10 degrees or less).

At a minimum, verify what coolant it has in it. If it is the Ford Gold coolant, then it MUST be drained, flushed (and flushed several times again), and then replaced with a good EC-1 rated ELC coolant!

Also (IMO), put together a pressure gauge w/ connections to watch the degas bottle when test driving (looking for extra pressure from maybe an already leaking EGR cooler or head gasket leaks). Look for signs of the degas bottle "puking" coolant (residual white spots indicate dried coolant) around the degas bottle. Be wary if everything looks RECENTLY cleaned!

Always make sure the engine is cold when you show up - so you can start it and drive it when cold.

Things that need to be changed on an 05 (if they haven't already been done):

An 05 has the weak EGR cooler, so an EGR delete or a BPD EGR cooler is a wise investment. If you do a delete, you need a tune that accounts for it IMO (this doesn't need to be a hp increasing tune!).

The HPOP discharge fitting is weak. An update to this STC fitting resolves the issue.

The 05 and up oil rails have components that tend to leak. Each rail has a dummy plug and a standpipe. Updated components have proven to resolve the issue.

All 6.0's have a susceptibility to having a weak fuel pressure regulator spring. An updated spring resolves this issue, but some have had issues w/ this update, even though it is not common. That said, before even updating the spring, he should install a fuel pressure gauge so that he can ensure proper fuel pressure (Ford says 45 psig at all times, but IMO it should be above 50 psig at all times). Sufficient fuel pressure is necessary to protect expensive injectors!

Voltage is critical for the 6.0L computers. The FICM is especially vulnerable. Good batteries and a good alternator are critical. He may need to plan on spending money in this area - and batteries and a RELIABLE alternator that puts out 140A or more are not all that cheap. IMO sending the FICM to Ed at FICMrepair.com is an important part of reliability.

Jumping straight to head studs is a mistake IMO. If he really wants them, then save up the money and do that work after driving for awhile and getting to know your truck!
Good luck w/ the (potential) purchase.

Edit - oh, then you need to also check that the engine will start on a completely HOT engine and that it idles well! Also, be sure to look at and smell the oil and transmission fluid!

 

If I knew then what I know now about this problematic engine, I would run for the the hills.....especially if I wasn't mechanically savvy and having to pay for all work to be done.

Don't get me wrong I love my truck NOW (15k in parts later over accumulated years) but this truck can be a MAJOR PITA and financially burdening if not maintained correctly IMO.

The advice you received is great and if you can verify it having been done or checks out, then I would consider the purchase. But be ready for other gremlins to pop up over time.

 

Since he is planning on a "bulletproof" approach, I assume he has some money to spend. Doing the things mentioned above BEFORE buying and then before spending the big bucks on head studs should eliminate the big dollar surprises. Still, it isn't cheap to do the stuff mentioned, and since he may have to buy new heads as part of the head stud job, it can get even more expensive!

IMO, if he does all that he "should" be fine. That said, buying a used truck can always be a "gotcha". IMO, that is why I look for lower mileage STOCK trucks. Hopefully it is a one-owner truck who has proof of the maintenance records.

An aftermarket intake and a tall oil filter cap are indicators to me to move on! So are signs of the coolant puking out of the degas bottle. I know that these things can be fixed, but IMO a root cause to MANY, MANY of our 6.0L issues is excessive heat. I look for all the signs of this that one could possibly imagine! They are out there, but one has to be wise and thorough!

 

I've owned my truck since I bought it new in 2004. I'm 66 years old. With only 67,000+ miles on it, I just installed the 3rd set of head gaskets in February of this year. And there have been some other issues in the past.

In that I'm now retired, I pulled the engine to replace those head gaskets and did a lot of other preventive maintenance. The project took 9 weeks and I enjoyed it. I did all the work, except the rebuilding of my original heads. The project cost was high, and a surprise to me was the cost of a variety of tools that I needed for this work. I considered my tool selection to be pretty good before the project, but I couldn't continue this diesel engine repair without the tools upgrades. One example... I invested in 2 separate tools to install the front and rear main seals, cost...$375, and one of them was a used tool I snagged off Ebay.

Now...in my opinion an 18 year old doesn't need to face the potential negative impact of a truck that may, um, will fail him for a number of unforseen reasons. Not only will his transportation be parked for some period of time, the costs associated with those repairs will be many, thousands of dollars.

I think a truck is a great all around vehicle. In your grandson's case, a gas engine truck is my recommendation.

 

Kinda what I was thinking

 

Sounds like he just wants to roll coal but if he wants a reliable and good all around truck I’d be looking for an older Toyota Tacoma V6.

 

keep in mind too.. theres also quite a few of these trucks running around that are still 100% stock with only the "approved" Ford upgrades (not the ones listed as being needed to be bullet proofed) and are problem free... some of those are even users on this forum that are still fully stock...

Something to keep in mind as well... even if you do all the stuff listed in the Tech Threads that are said to be "needed" to bullet proof these trucks DOES NOT!!!! i repeat... DOES NOT!!!! guarantee they will be problem free.... as some here have also found out when tinkering with their "problem free" ones, that sometimes doing so can actually cause you to have problems you were trying to avoid anyways...

heres one example of what i mean... when i got my truck it still had the original Black fuel pressure regulator spring... wasnt having any problems with fuel pressure.. but i listened to everyone that was telling me to "upgrade" to the blue spring kit... after doing so i ended up having nothing but fuel pressure problems... 3 kits later and i was still having issues... even tried putting the original spring back in after the 3rd one but it just wouldnt hold the pressure like it did... I ended up having to install a regulated return to solve the fuel pressure fluctuation issues... now my pressures steady again... if i had it to do all over again i would have left it alone until it started to be a problem... would have saved me time and anguish... ive talked with a few others that had the same issue i did when they tried to update and ended up having to go the same route to fix theirs...

My biggest word of advice to anyone buying a 6.0... if its running fine when you buy it... LEAVE IT ALONE!!!! dont just jump into trying to correct something that is not really a problem... if you want to tinker with it once it breaks down that fine... but as the old saying goes... If it aint broke dont fix it...

 

I can’t stand waiting for trucks, boats, tractors, lawnmowers etc. to break down before I fix them. I am in the oil field and maintaining equipment and preventative maintenance not only saves money, it makes money and prevents dangerous equipment failures. I would rather do what I did with my truck than buy a new one. I paid $15k for it at 150k and now at 184k I have dropped about $15k in preventative repairs and upgrades to make it run the way I want it to and be comfortable the way I want it to. Most of this expense was not necessary, it was my choice to spend money on quality upgrades. The only necessary expenses so far have been a HPOP and a crank sensor. My head gaskets were compromised because a shade tree mechanic the previous owner used improper block preparation techniques.

 

theres a big difference between doing preventive maintenance (ie oil changes, greasing joints and crap like that) and modding something just because someone says that it "might" break down... and thats the problem with the 6.0's... youve got so many people out there acting as fearmongers screaming that "ohh this needs done or else itll break..." or "you need to delete this because its destroying the engine" when really half the problems people had with the 6.0's were caused by the owner themselfs... (granted ford didnt help in the matters either) International/Navstar runs these same engines with very few issues... they dont have the issues ford did.. matter fact headgasket failures are pretty much unheard of under the international fleet except in cases where severe overheating situations have happened due to waterpump going bad or thermostats froze shut...

now you have to look at why International/Navstar had so little problems but ford does.... which really came down to 2 main reasons...

A. Ford took the tuning that was given to them for the engine and turned it up to 11 to make higher numbers to beat the competition...
B. They ran a coolant they were explicitly told not to run..

then you had the customer caused problems...
A. Getting tuners and turning that tune up even higher, putting even more stress on top of an already over-stressed engine..
B. People deleting equipment not realizing the that it actually served as a safety check for the engine..
C. People sometimes changing out good equipment for some lower quality equipment just because some mfg says theyre better than stock when theyre really not.

Then you get those people that dump the 10-15K into that engine so that its "bulletproofed" then want to whine that the engines junk because it wasnt really bulletproofed in their opinion because of the failure... thats why it really irks me when people scare newbies into spending a buttload of money that they really dont need to spend simply because something may possibly someday at some point break down in the not so near future... Itd be like changing out a perfectly good brand new ball joint that shows no signs of any kind of wear or play in it simply because someone says that it could fail in 5-10 years so you need to change it now before it someday becomes a problem...

 

And this generation of trucks is getting long in the tooth, some being 16 years old. Whether bone stock, unmolested or modded, components will eventually fail.

Does the grandson know that every DIY oil and filter change for a 6.0 Powerstroke will cost somewhere near $100 or more? My grandson drives a Toyota, and a DIY oil change costs him $21.

 

I am with Sparky83, if it is doing fine stock then leave it alone, don't do power adders or modify the factory's work. Do good preventive maintenance. Cooling system flush, good batteries, yes, upgrade the alternator, clean the turbo (if needed) address the EGR cooler, I replaced mine with an IPR high flow. My temps run 10 degrees delta all the time, new oil cooler, external oil cooler, new radiator, new water pump, nothing has made a difference, this is the way my truck runs. I went from an external oil cooler back to the factory internal because I did not like how it changed my stock setup.

I am getting ready to drive it 2000 miles starting Friday pulling the camper. I trust my stock 6.0L and with the help of the FTE crowd I have overcome the 6.0 paranoia.

 

Absolutely the same mindset.

I grew up with a stack of Hot Rod under my bed from the age of 7, which meant everything initially got modified. The progression went lawn mowers, tractors, farm truck, my car, motorcycles....... then I got into my 20s. A lot of re-fixing the betterment. Once I got to work in the automotive industry I started to see things differently. The progression of betterment slowed as I understood the design and testing that went behind products. Another awakening was from the aspect that my company had half of its sales to OE for assembly line applications and the other half aftermarket. One week I could b sitting in an engineering meeting in Detroit, then next week working with a sales rep in the aftermarket or being in a meeting with the aftermarket program managers. What a friggin dichotomy. Of course, I have a new reawakening of that currently for a non-brake reason.

With the 6.0 Ford pushed the limits, of the motor and of Int/Nav. They were not up to the task, and I don't mean that in a bad way. They were utility engine builders, Ford wanted Shelby Mustang prominence. Nav's "A bridge too far", which culminated into the 6.4L. As I saw on the brake side with the '99-04 Akebono calipers, Ford can push a manufacturer to do things where the supplier knew better, and it's the end customer that is the one hurting when the dust settles. And the manufacturer too since it gets dropped as a supplier because it did what the customer wanted. (Pricing had a LOT to do with that too, TRW came in below cost).

As Shawn very well stated, International chassis did not have the same failure rates for HG or oil coolers that Ford pickups did, and the warranty for the E-vans was lower than the pickups. That data I used to have access to. From what I remember after 6.0L launch, everyone jumped on getting more power. So it was the head bolts fault (probably not), then the gaskets fault (aftermarket heroes, oops, need Motorcraft), and now that studs are not the Holy Grail, it's o-rings. Ask yourself, why are there 5 different casting numbers of 6.0L heads.

This is a motor that needs an owner who has tolerance and great mechanical abilities, along with a good wallet. Not a dig at Smack Daddy at all, but "I have dropped about $15k in preventative repairs and upgrades to make it run the way I want it to..." after paying $15k for it, could get my first wife, a psychologist, to say you need to lay on the couch. What it's "worth to me" sometimes is self-justification when you can't sell it for that or any reimbursement from an insurance situation.

Whenever someone comes here asking about buying a new truck, Mark usually starts his list of things to learn and test before you buy. It's a good list. New, with a responsible owner (I wasn't one) they can have a good life. Used, the quality of repairs should require a sign installed on the window, quicksand ahead.

 

Hmmm, I guess I'm a middle-ground person on preemptively updating things. Let's just take the STC as an example: I read of a lot of failures, Ford was working on "fixes", I ran into a guy at the local Ace hardware who had an '06 that was pretty similar to my truck, and I struck up a conversation: Me: I have a truck just like yours, how do you like it? Him: I hate it and am going to dump it as soon as I have enough money saved. Me: why? Him: truck was running perfectly and all of the sudden BAM and I was on the side of the road -- STC fitting blew and took out the rear cover. He had to fix it on his dime and it took weeks to get done, and he was a contractor who depended on his truck. Last STC story: I was already having the oil cooler replaced, so I wanted to do the STC too. The shop I took it into I spoke with the ford Tech who was to do my work -- he said: It's really good you are updating the STC to the replacement, I've seen them go at 10K miles and on up, without any warning. He points to a truck in the yard (F250) and says: that '06 has been here 3 weeks and I can't give the owner a completion date, because it blew the STC and ruined the rear engine cover, and guess what? Across the country I cannot find a single cover and Ford has no Fill date yet...

I don't worry when my Wife takes the truck and camper/trailer and her horse on a trip by herself with her Gals Horse club. While some of them always seem to have issues, my Wife waits until the last Gal has gotten out of camp (they do have some interesting problems), then she heads home - she has a super stretch and ****** rescue belt, jumper cables, boards, etc. so far to just get the others out...

I'm rambling again. Lots of good info and advice in this thread though...

Peace of mind, though I guess I should check my fuel pressure...!