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Howdy. Planning my summer upgrades, and seeing if you guys know of any full-leaf options I have missed.
Up front, I'm going with a BDS 4-link for the most atticulation offroad, and would like to maximize rear compliance as well. Stock, the rear is already a hair under 4" higher than the front (about 35" to the front fender vs 39" to the rear fender). This is includes the factory ~4" lift block on the rear leafs.
So far, the only two explicitely advertised for 2017+ are the Carli and PMF leaf systems. Carli is described as having a 2000lb bed load capacity. Assuming a built-in ~3500lb capacity for stock leafs, that is a whopping 40% softer--unless they just mean 2000lb until it sags below level, which could honestly mean they are nearly as stiff as factory. FWIW, Srage3Motorsports estimates an 15% reduction in capacity. The PMF leafs are described as ~10% softer than stock. I chatted with PMF, explaining my desire for softer leafs with a moderately rear-high stance to allow for some modest bed loads without sagging. They recommended their '4.5"' leafs, which actually are a 5.5" total lift spring without the block (1.5" over stock), possibly with a 1" block if I ended up needing it. Deciphering some of Carli's jargon, their rear leafs would also provide a similar ~1.5" over stock.
Other than tongue weight (which will largely be redistributed), I don't anticipate many large bed loads. My spreadsheet, which also calculates the distribution of weight between the axles for a given mod, only shows me me carrying <900lb more additional pounds on the rear axle than on the front (gas cans, generator, extra water, bikes and snowboards, etc). We could say a maximum of 500lb of tongue weight would be added to the rear axles. So, I may not even need the 1" block unless I add dirtbikes down the road.
With all that said, does anyone have experiences, or even anecdotes, with these two options?
Also, can anyone confirm 2016 leafs will fit? I have seen a few indications they fit (one of which is that PMF lists their springs as 2009-2018, but that could honestly be a typo). But, it would be nice to know for sure, because there are more options for the previous generation, and in some cases they are a good bit cheaper.
I don’t think I can help with your spring project. I would, however, like to add something (hopefully useful) to your load distribution calculations. Assuming a deadweight hitch, adding 500 lbs. of tongue weight will affect both axles in what is a fairly straightforward statics exercise with the rear axle acting as a fulcrum.
Your truck’s wheelbase is 160”, the rear overhang is 52”, and let’s assume the ball shank adds another 6” of overhang to reach the ball. The added rear axle load will be:
500 lbs. x (160 + 52 + 6) / 160 = +681 lbs.
The corresponding added front axle load will be 500 - 681 = -181 lbs.
Thanks, Jim! But, sorry, to be clear, I was referring to maximim post-distrubution weight added to the rear axle . I am expecting a <1200lb tongue weight, with perhaps 200 of which being pushed to the forward axles, maybe 600 to the trailer's axles, and the rest remaining on the truck's rear axle.
Howdy. Planning my summer upgrades, and seeing if you guys know of any full-leaf options I have missed.
Up front, I'm going with a BDS 4-link for the most atticulation offroad, and would like to maximize rear compliance as well. Stock, the rear is already a hair under 4" higher than the front (about 35" to the front fender vs 39" to the rear fender). This is includes the factory ~4" lift block on the rear leafs.
So far, the only two explicitely advertised for 2017+ are the Carli and PMF leaf systems. Carli is described as having a 2000lb bed load capacity. Assuming a built-in ~3500lb capacity for stock leafs, that is a whopping 40% softer--unless they just mean 2000lb until it sags below level, which could honestly mean they are nearly as stiff as factory. The PMF leafs are described as ~10% softer than stock. I chatted with PMF, explaining my desire for softer leafs with a moderately rear-high stance to allow for some modest bed loads without sagging. They recommended their '4.5"' leafs, which actually are a 5.5" total lift spring without the block (1.5" over stock), possibly with a 1" block if I ended up needing it. Deciphering some of Carli's jargon, their rear leafs would also provide a similar ~1.5" over stock.
Other than tongue weight (which will largely be redistributed), I don't anticipate many large bed loads. My spreadsheet, which also calculates the distribution of weight between the axles for a given mod, only shows me me carrying <900lb more additional pounds on the rear axle than on the front (gas cans, generator, extra water, bikes and snowboards, etc). We could say a maximum of 500lb of tongue weight would be added to the rear axles. So, I may not even need the 1" block unless I add dirtbikes down the road.
With all that said, does anyone have experiences, or even anecdotes, with these two options?
Also, can anyone confirm 2016 leafs will fit? I have seen a few indications they fit (one of which is that PMF lists their springs as 2009-2018, but that could honestly be a typo). But, it would be nice to know for sure, because there are more options for the previous generation, and in some cases they are a good bit cheaper.
Thanks!
I think the Carli full progressive pack are gonna be way softer then stock in all stages of travel. Otherwise they'd be able to keep the OEM rating. Buddy has to run airbags partially inflated with his full leaf pack when running with his service bed. CARLI also says their springs wont work well with any other shocks but their own due to valving :shrug:
I have the Carli full pack and they are very compliant, 15 in of travel if I am recalling the stat correctly.
The on road ride is amazing. I have not been aggressive off roading on them but with the moderate off roading I have done they have performed beyond my expectation.
I do load my bed so I have installed bags over Daystar cups to compensate and regain level and load capacity.
I have the Carli full pack and they are very compliant, 15 in of travel if I am recalling the stat correctly.
The on road ride is amazing. I have not been aggressive off roading on them but with the moderate off roading I have done they have performed beyond my expectation.
I do load my bed so I have installed bags over Daystar cups to compensate and regain level and load capacity.
Ah! Thanks! I do have a few follow-up questions, if I may.
1) How much did your Carli leafs lift the rear? (Did you have OEM 4" blocks?)
2) What shocks are you running with them?
3) The 15" of travel applies to the 2017+ as well? I have only seen that value in Carli's description of their 2016 leafs, but Ibhave seen it applied to the 2017+ leafs on distributors' websites. Also, I assume this really means 15" of articulated / swing travel (i.e. flexing), as opposed to a full 15" of pure-vertical axle movement (i.e. jumping)?
I think the Carli full progressive pack are gonna be way softer then stock in all stages of travel. Otherwise they'd be able to keep the OEM rating. Buddy has to run airbags partially inflated with his full leaf pack when running with his service bed. CARLI also says their springs wont work well with any other shocks but their own due to valving :shrug:
Ah, and yeah Id honestly like to avoid airbags unless I can find a really, really soft leaf set. Id rather add an inch of rear height than mess with airbags for the rear axle loads I am expecting.
travel numbers should just be full bump to full droop (all the way and down vertically). ideally your shocks are set in the middle of their range so you have decent droop and bump.
Lindenwood;18429421]Ah! Thanks! I do have a few follow-up questions, if I may.
1) How much did your Carli leafs lift the rear? (Did you have OEM 4" blocks?)
Carli claimed a 1.5 in lift in the rear. Mine ended up being just a little under 1 in.
2) What shocks are you running with them?
King 2.5's. My installation is the Carli Pintop 2.5 with full Deavers. All the info is on their website... Carli Pintop
3) The 15" of travel applies to the 2017+ as well? I have only seen that value in Carli's description of their 2016 leafs, but Ibhave seen it applied to the 2017+ leafs on distributors' websites. Also, I assume this really means 15" of articulated / swing travel (i.e. flexing), as opposed to a full 15" of pure-vertical axle movement (i.e. jumping)?
An astute observation on your part.
When I did my Deaver install Carli claimed 15 in of travel. However, my install was done early in the '17 season and it is certainly possible that mine is of the 12 in variety which is what Carli is currently claiming for their '17+ systems.
Whatever mine is nobody is gonna touch my suspension, it is absolutely perfect for me. My wife refuses to drive in her Lexus anymore and I am completely satisfied with the mild off roading I do. Search YouTube for Carli, they have some great videos of aggressive off roading posted.
I know you are not interested in bags but here are some links to suspension posta I have made, you may find some useful information there.
Thanks, Jim! But, sorry, to be clear, I was referring to maximim post-distrubution weight added to the rear axle . I am expecting a <1200lb tongue weight, with perhaps 200 of which being pushed to the forward axles, maybe 600 to the trailer's axles, and the rest remaining on the truck's rear axle.
I’m gonna second the Carli full leafs. I had them installed on my ‘19 F350 ccsb, as part of the pintop 2.5 system along with the Carli airbags that allow for full rear suspension travel without the need for cradles. Smooth ride, very compliant off road and excellent comfort for the street. Others may accurately state why reduce the capacity of the F350 to band-aid it with airbags, but there is no free lunch. Any choice is a compromise elsewhere. This setup allows smooth ride, off road manners, and still the ability to tow. Good luck with your choice.
. I am expecting a <1200lb tongue weight, with perhaps 200 of which being pushed to the forward axles, maybe 600 to the trailer's axles, and the rest remaining on the truck's rear axle.
