DEF forever?
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Senior User
Joined: May 2008
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DEF forever?
Is there any tech on the horizon to eliminate the DEF requirement? I have a 2008 F-350 and I am (for the most part) happy with the truck. One MAJOR issue that prevents me from a new truck is the DEF requirement. Too many complications with newer diesels...starting with the REGEN fiasco
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 464
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Is there any tech on the horizon to eliminate the DEF requirement? I have a 2008 F-350 and I am (for the most part) happy with the truck. One MAJOR issue that prevents me from a new truck is the DEF requirement. Too many complications with newer diesels...starting with the REGEN fiasco
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,745
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From: West Virginia
If DEF is all that is stopping you, then you're in pretty good shape. DEF is, IMO, about the best emissions reduction system ever devised. It doesn't take anything from the engine at all, it doesn't require extremely higher operating temperatures to do its job, and it does a very good job of eliminating toxic emissions for a relatively low cost. The only problem I see with it is the low power condition that is imposed when the DEF reaches a certain level. If there is a sensor failure, reducing the truck's power and speed will make getting to a dealer for repair much more difficult.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,592
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Sounds like something that might eliminate active regens, but I don’t see it eliminating DEF. Why is DEF such a big deal? All that is required is a refill of the tank roughly every oil change. Costs about $20 and takes about 5 min if you’re using boxes. If you have a pump, it’s even faster. Of all the things to dislike about modern trucks, DEF is way down the list for me.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,912
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From: The Great State of Texas
Is there any tech on the horizon to eliminate the DEF requirement? I have a 2008 F-350 and I am (for the most part) happy with the truck. One MAJOR issue that prevents me from a new truck is the DEF requirement. Too many complications with newer diesels...starting with the REGEN fiasco
Bottom line is diesels have become more complicated including your 08 that you claim to be happy with for the most part.
Freshman User
Joined: Oct 2018
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Yeah...This is my 2nd DEF required vehicle. I had a Grand Cherokee Eco-Diesel and the DEF refill on it and on this truck is just simply a non issue.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Dec 2012
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The only instance I have heard rumors of for No DEF...is there maybe an emergency vehicle exemption...as limp modes are not a good thing for ambulances...and not good for firetruck to want to Regen, when in pump gear and guys inside trying to put out fires...
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 176
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From: Syracuse NY
You can always do a delete. BUT, that ends your warranty, is a pain to get it installed, have to be careful of what tunes you run, the exhaust fumes stink (pun intended), and you now have to take an active role of keeping the engine happy with monitoring fual rail pressure, exhaust gas Temps, coolant Temps, etc. So run the truck stock and put fuel in it when it's low and def in it when it's low... Regens, def and such are what old diesel owners say to justify not upgrading. These new trucks start in the cold faster, run quieter and have more power stock then tuned older trucks. I have always tuned and deleted my old trucks but I love how quiet this one is, how smooth and powerful it is, and how mindless you can be with it. Get in and drive it. That's all. Once you tow with the new one you won't care about adding def every 7-9k miles. These psd are awesome!
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DEF and maybe many diesel engines might fall victim to DICi gasoline. Direct injection, compression ignition, gasoline fuel. 13 and 14:1 compression and combustion chamber wizardry. Mazda has these on the market now, time will tell if this works and can be adapted to larger engines.
EcoBoost with the super high combustion pressures is close, but is still spark ignition. I would bet it's a kiss away from compression ignition if the development goes in that direction. Time will tell.
As for the limp modes etc, IMO that is almost always driver error and laziness. There are plenty of lights, bells and whistles on these vehicles to warn the driver to refill DEF.
EcoBoost with the super high combustion pressures is close, but is still spark ignition. I would bet it's a kiss away from compression ignition if the development goes in that direction. Time will tell.
As for the limp modes etc, IMO that is almost always driver error and laziness. There are plenty of lights, bells and whistles on these vehicles to warn the driver to refill DEF.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2018
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I think you are confused between DEF and DPF (and perhaps EGR).
The things we wish we could get rid of: DPF & EGR.
The thing that really is trivial and not worth much worrying about: DEF.
I read an article maybe a year to 18 months back that .. man the name escapes me, big diesel company (not Cummins) had a "EGR-less" design that was looking really promising. Of course that's not shown up in trucks, I think it was maybe being targeted for industrial application first. So I think it is likely we'll see a significant advancement that results in no EGR and that's really the big one that we'd all like to see gone.
The things we wish we could get rid of: DPF & EGR.
The thing that really is trivial and not worth much worrying about: DEF.
I read an article maybe a year to 18 months back that .. man the name escapes me, big diesel company (not Cummins) had a "EGR-less" design that was looking really promising. Of course that's not shown up in trucks, I think it was maybe being targeted for industrial application first. So I think it is likely we'll see a significant advancement that results in no EGR and that's really the big one that we'd all like to see gone.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: May 2008
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DEF Forever?
Oh and then there's the DEF freezing and the problems reporting DEF levels and the action they apparently have to take when the DEF runs down or out....and so on...and so on.... and so on...
Oh yeah...don't forget the DPF replacement cost. Is this REALLY the best technology available?
Last edited by yukondiesel; Dec 9, 2018 at 07:33 PM. Reason: added thought
More Turbo
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 618
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Trust me, the 6.7L is MILES ahead of anything Navistar/International put out. Now if this is a just a general "emissions systems bitch session" which its beginning to sound like it is - delete it, if its legal in your county. If not - deal with it, just like the rest of us. You've spent more energy on this thread worrying about DEF then I have in the 16k miles I've put on my truck LOL.
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 515
From: WNY
If DEF is all that is stopping you, then you're in pretty good shape. DEF is, IMO, about the best emissions reduction system ever devised. It doesn't take anything from the engine at all, it doesn't require extremely higher operating temperatures to do its job, and it does a very good job of eliminating toxic emissions for a relatively low cost. The only problem I see with it is the low power condition that is imposed when the DEF reaches a certain level. If there is a sensor failure, reducing the truck's power and speed will make getting to a dealer for repair much more difficult.
OP, research your emissions equipment, which is 100% cooled EGR. You’ll understand why DEF is saving your engine and almost doubling your fuel mileage.