DEF forever?
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 516
From: WNY
Nope...no confusion. I do know the difference since my 2008 has the DPF and no need for DEF. It just seems that the more complex these systems become,, the MORE intervention is necessary, plus the cost, although minimal is still and annoyance to me...sorry it just is. Just add the cost of the DEF to the cost of fuel and the cost of fuel conditioner and the cost of anti-gel and the cost of 15 quarts of oil every 5k miles instead of 5 quarts every 10,000 to 20,000 miles and the cost of $80 for fuel filters every 5,000 miles and the cost of $11,000 for the engine/trans. I love my diesels and I've owned a few, but this just starts to get annoying (there's that word again!). Will I buy another diesel...Yup, but I'm not the smartest guy on my block. I guess I like diesels enough to get aggravated every now and then.
Oh and then there's the DEF freezing and the problems reporting DEF levels and the action they apparently have to take when the DEF runs down or out....and so on...and so on.... and so on...
Oh yeah...don't forget the DPF replacement cost. Is this REALLY the best technology available?
Oh and then there's the DEF freezing and the problems reporting DEF levels and the action they apparently have to take when the DEF runs down or out....and so on...and so on.... and so on...
Oh yeah...don't forget the DPF replacement cost. Is this REALLY the best technology available?
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
DEF Forever
Your living in the past mate. the 6.7L is 10k oil changes, and 20k filter changes - and that's the severe schedule (I qualify for "Severe). We get about 250mpg on DEF while towing heavy, so nearly 2k miles per fillup, and you just go to the truck stop and its another nozzle at the pump. Its really not a big deal. If you don't tow heavy regularily, you just get it filled with your oil change.
Trust me, the 6.7L is MILES ahead of anything Navistar/International put out. Now if this is a just a general "emissions systems bitch session" which its beginning to sound like it is - delete it, if its legal in your county. If not - deal with it, just like the rest of us. You've spent more energy on this thread worrying about DEF then I have in the 16k miles I've put on my truck LOL.
Trust me, the 6.7L is MILES ahead of anything Navistar/International put out. Now if this is a just a general "emissions systems bitch session" which its beginning to sound like it is - delete it, if its legal in your county. If not - deal with it, just like the rest of us. You've spent more energy on this thread worrying about DEF then I have in the 16k miles I've put on my truck LOL.
It seems gas engines are closing the gap with diesels on torque and mileage (even surpassing the mileage question) is that a consensus here?
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 4
I guess you're right: I did turn this into a general rant about emissions when I only intended to lament the increasing complexity of emission controls and the issues they introduce. . I do believe in better emission controls,hence my reluctance to delete. Of course the cars behind me consumed and obscured by clouds of stinking white smoke from in my last regen, would probably disagree. My real gripe is the technology seems overly complex for the results. My 6.4 has been a good engine (knock on wood) and from all I've read, it can make more power under tuners than the 6.7...but that's another story. Have some or most of the issues with DEF supply (freezing et al) been pretty much resolved?
It seems gas engines are closing the gap with diesels on torque and mileage (even surpassing the mileage question) is that a consensus here?
It seems gas engines are closing the gap with diesels on torque and mileage (even surpassing the mileage question) is that a consensus here?
Scroll through the forum.. there have been very few issues with the whole DEF system over the past several years. I truly would not be concerned about the 6.7.. it has been a superb engine, leaps and bound better then the 6.0 and 6.4. The 6.4 had many downfalls.... the emissions was an afterthought and was not designed for the 6.4. The 6.7 was designed WITH the emissions system
Boondocker
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 19,642
Likes: 12,783
From: Somewhere south of Denver
I guess you're right: I did turn this into a general rant about emissions when I only intended to lament the increasing complexity of emission controls and the issues they introduce. . I do believe in better emission controls,hence my reluctance to delete. Of course the cars behind me consumed and obscured by clouds of stinking white smoke from in my last regen, would probably disagree. My real gripe is the technology seems overly complex for the results. My 6.4 has been a good engine (knock on wood) and from all I've read, it can make more power under tuners than the 6.7...but that's another story. Have some or most of the issues with DEF supply (freezing et al) been pretty much resolved?
It seems gas engines are closing the gap with diesels on torque and mileage (even surpassing the mileage question) is that a consensus here?
It seems gas engines are closing the gap with diesels on torque and mileage (even surpassing the mileage question) is that a consensus here?
DEF can freeze. The system can resolve that on its own. I've had no DPF/DEF issues and filling DEF is easy. EGR? Mine is in the shop with an EGR related check engine light. The service write made it sound like the fix wasn't a big deal. Maybe just a software change.
The gas engines are certainly getting better. But put them under the strain of towing and the MPG isn't that great. Unloaded, my truck would be lucky to get 19 MPG. Gone are the days of diesel engines getting far better MPG than gasoline engines.
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 685
Likes: 4
Regen fiasco? So far between my 2 super duty's ( 2012 and 2017 ) the only regen issue I experienced was on my 2012 with one sensor at the back of the DPF and that was at over 100k miles, Ford replaced the sensor for free. As much as I'd absolutely love to delete the emissions controls, I find it hard to justify spending 2-3k on a truck that runs so damn good and would hate to void my warranty also. These new 6.7's (even with the emissions controls) are light years ahead of their predecessors. Don't let a little DEF stand between you and one of these 6.7's.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,673
Likes: 51
From: SoCal
DEF/DPF are awesome, they are the sole reason we can have 450hp/935lbs type numbers. Ford can make dirty *** engines that pump out massive numbers because they have a way to effectively manage that exhaust downstream.
5th Wheeling
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 35
Likes: 2
I have a 2017 F250 diesel. I live in northern Ontario where we often get temperatures of -20C (4 or 5 below 0F). I have had no problems at all with DEF. It uses little for unloaded highway driving. The first that I added was at the first oil change and then only needed to add a jug. I had Cummins under the hood for 20 years until I bought the ford one year ago. I now have 50,000km on it (about 31000 mile) with not issues.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 402
Likes: 26
From: Anywhere USA
What is this 'fiasco' devilry you speak of?!?! 
Just kidding...DEF has been a giant non-issue for me. I do find a certain irony however in the arguments about the complexity of the emissions systems and engines yet everyone seems to want all the additional complexity of adaptive steering/braking/avoidance systems and every kind of bell and whistle offered by Ford in the cabs of their trucks. I think these things are too complex to begin with...God help us if autonomous vehicles ever become commonplace. 
Just kidding...DEF has been a giant non-issue for me. I do find a certain irony however in the arguments about the complexity of the emissions systems and engines yet everyone seems to want all the additional complexity of adaptive steering/braking/avoidance systems and every kind of bell and whistle offered by Ford in the cabs of their trucks. I think these things are too complex to begin with...God help us if autonomous vehicles ever become commonplace.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Nope...no confusion. I do know the difference since my 2008 has the DPF and no need for DEF. It just seems that the more complex these systems become,, the MORE intervention is necessary, plus the cost, although minimal is still and annoyance to me...sorry it just is. Just add the cost of the DEF to the cost of fuel and the cost of fuel conditioner and the cost of anti-gel and the cost of 15 quarts of oil every 5k miles instead of 5 quarts every 10,000 to 20,000 miles and the cost of $80 for fuel filters every 5,000 miles and the cost of $11,000 for the engine/trans. I love my diesels and I've owned a few, but this just starts to get annoying (there's that word again!). Will I buy another diesel...Yup, but I'm not the smartest guy on my block. I guess I like diesels enough to get aggravated every now and then.
Oh and then there's the DEF freezing and the problems reporting DEF levels and the action they apparently have to take when the DEF runs down or out....and so on...and so on.... and so on...
Oh yeah...don't forget the DPF replacement cost. Is this REALLY the best technology available?
Oh and then there's the DEF freezing and the problems reporting DEF levels and the action they apparently have to take when the DEF runs down or out....and so on...and so on.... and so on...
Oh yeah...don't forget the DPF replacement cost. Is this REALLY the best technology available?
Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 216
Likes: 3
From: MA
What is this 'fiasco' devilry you speak of?!?! Just kidding...DEF has been a giant non-issue for me. I do find a certain irony however in the arguments about the complexity of the emissions systems and engines yet everyone seems to want all the additional complexity of adaptive steering/braking/avoidance systems and every kind of bell and whistle offered by Ford in the cabs of their trucks. I think these things are too complex to begin with...God help us if autonomous vehicles ever become commonplace.
Just kidding...DEF has been a giant non-issue for me. I do find a certain irony however in the arguments about the complexity of the emissions systems and engines yet everyone seems to want all the additional complexity of adaptive steering/braking/avoidance systems and every kind of bell and whistle offered by Ford in the cabs of their trucks. I think these things are too complex to begin with...God help us if autonomous vehicles ever become commonplace. A diesel XLT with 4x4 on the floor, fully deleted, and added Katskin leather interior is a far better truck than a fully loaded Platinum (imo). That truck will outlast those that are loaded down with unneeded crap, while being able to work harder.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,529
Likes: 389
From: SEVA
When I saw the title of this thread, I wondered if it was going to discuss what I've been experiencing. And since many of the more DEF-ejumicated posters are already here, I figured this may be a good spot to post the following. My DEF gauge seems to have stopped dropping and has been at the 9/16-full mark for the last couple thousand miles. I do not tow, and we've had little cold weather here in SEVA ... maybe 4 or 5 nights got below 32°F so far this season. I don't know if I have a problem or not. I did buy a 2.5-gallon jug of DEF on my home today, and will pour it in tomorrow to see if the gauge moves back up. Anyone here else notice their DEF gauge appear unresponsive?
Boondocker
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 19,642
Likes: 12,783
From: Somewhere south of Denver
My gauge takes a few minutes to register when I add a 2.5 gallon jug. But it does eventually get around to it.
I don't remember hearing that DEF usage goes way down in the winter, but the regen interval does seem to increase.
I don't remember hearing that DEF usage goes way down in the winter, but the regen interval does seem to increase.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,529
Likes: 389
From: SEVA
I only have 9,000 miles on my 2017, and have only once added a 2.5-gallon jug of DEF. But when I did, it registered almost as soon as I restarted the engine. Contrary to what you said, my regens are not as frequent and the DPF gauge increases at a slower rate now that cooler air is about. During warmer/humid months, the DPF gauge would indicate a 5% increase after every 9-mile commute to or from work. It was fairly common to go through 2 regens on a single tank of fuel. Again, this truck is driven mostly around town.