Just for the record, I wasn't supporting over fueled, deleted trucks and rolling coal. I think those dudes are idiots personally. Some of the dudes on the videos are running dirty tunes that over fuel and advance the timing. Not good for a daily driver. But for Some one who sled pulls professionally or drags their truck and rips it down a lot, that's a different story.

All I was saying was that the emissions equipment, while necessary and beneficial, does have its drawbacks when it comes to engine health. I'm not advocating deleting here but if down the road when I'm off warranty and I have issues or problems with the emissions stuff, I will consider it. Let me explain below.

Not every guy who deletes runs a race tune but there are some. I follow a 6.7 Powerstroke page on Facebook where I learn some things. Some guys want to delete their trucks because they are off warranty, having emissions related issues while being off warranty or basically want more longevity for their 6.7s. They also don't want a race tune but just a conservative tune that doesn't smoke a lot. They will delete the DPF, leave EGR intact, put on a delete pipe and run the factory tailpipe. I would to not draw attention. I would want a conservative tune as I wouldn't want black smoke. With that said, a little more power would be nice, but no race tunes.

So Ski, with the DP-Tuner tow tune, you get 20 mpg highway unloaded?

 

I'm not worried about a quickly dissipating puff of smoke due to the brief turbo lag and engine load. Heck, I've seen two separate 2015+ (or so) cars produce a light puff of smoke with heavy acceleration from a stop in recent memory (possibly a small turbo?). But those who fill intersections full of soot on purpose using high HP tunes purposely modified to dump fuel (smoke) designed for the truck/tractor pull should certainly reconsider their terrible decision. Why? What a waste. We've all seen it.

I don't know that anyone has the perfect answer without actively capturing/monitoring emissions output of a lot of newer trucks with and without the current EGR/SCR and DPF technology (which fight different concerns). Even then, some trucks run better than others and each of us would all have different results over 100,000 miles based on driving habits and location. Our US EIA (so take that FWIW) claims 22.4 pounds of CO2 are created by burning one gallon of diesel or 17.9 lbs for B20. Looking only at MPG, a tuned truck that achieves improved MPG produces less grams of CO2 because less ULSD is consumed. However, that isn't the whole story because the other big issue is the human respiratory concerns from particulates and NO(x). Is more CO2 a better trade-off than more NO(x)? How much of an improvement is the ash over soot? I've seen the ash advertised as "harmless" but no way it's harmless, it's just an improvement. I suppose this is one category that is end-user visually significant because of the differences of the exhaust tips (black vs grey or actually clean). This would be interesting information to learn unbiased and without an agenda.

If our current emission hardware more reliably lasted to the often advertised lifespan, more owners would probably decide the cost of deleting/tuning isn't as necessary. Or the cost of replacement/repair needs to drop 60% but I don't see that happening, even if/when emissions "3.0" (I consider adding in SCR is 2.0) is figured out. Our emissions hardware is expensive, even a simple component like the DEF injector.

 

Something else that I'd like to see answered, what was the carbon emissions cost of manufacturing new EGR equipment and engines due to emissions related engine failures. It's not insignificant when manufacturers rush to meet strict EPA requirements, but don't ironically see the forest for the trees. The EGR, SCR and DPF systems put more wear and tear into diesel engines that would have lasted generations assuming the truck didn't fall apart before the engine did. Now we're throwing away 6.4 motors at 150,000 miles and installing new ones, with the same emissions equipment that will cause them to die again. Ironically I think a more rational solution would be for the EPA to require manufacturers to install emissions equipment that can survive 10 years under normal operating conditions, even if they pollute more than current emissions design. The carbon offset would come from the manufacturing and re-manufacturing supply chain. AND The consumer benefits because they actually get a reliable truck that meets emissions standards.


One thing I'll note about fuel mileage and tow tunes when NOT towing is that you will see a drop in gas mileage as the exhaust brake function is always in effect and the torque converter is locked up. If you understand what these things do for a truck that's towing something you'll understand why they're bad for fuel economy, but good for pulling. I went from 14mpg in my F-350 daily driving in all conditions to 16.5 in town and 19.5 hwy (70mph). I recommend getting the SOTF tunes and using the RACE tune for daily driving and the tow tune when pulling anything. I know it sounds counter intuitive, but the race tune, when driven normally (i.e. not a child) will produce the coolest EGT and the highest MPG, thereby lengthening the life of the engine and components. If you're a hammer down driver, or generally lack self control, please don't delete your truck and then tell everyone fords are unreliable because you blew it up while pulling 15k in race mode, which you would do with any diesel truck under the same conditions.

 

I've found I get anywhere from .5 - 1.5 MPG better in settings 4, 5 and 6 on my SOTF tune than in positions 1, 2 or 3. I was surprised but, that's how it worked out so unless towing, I run the higher HP setting.

With the 4.3 rear end and living in a state with a 75MPH speed limit, I'll never see mileage like yours, 13 - 14 is the best I can hope for at 80MPH and 2500 RPM. I do a little better around town than on the highway.

 

You know this is all interesting discussion. It has lots of pros and cons. I am not an expert at any of this. I have an opinion and just plain everyday experience that I can share as I'm sure anyone in a similar position can. I love fast diesel trucks, and tall ones at that lol. My first diesel was the infamous 6.0l of which I had a lot of problems with. Typical of what everyone has experienced with head gaskets, overheating, turbo issues etc. So after about 100k miles and most important engine issues were repaired I deleted everything and added a tuner. Best thing I ever did. Solved all my problems and best of all created a reliable truck. No more heat issues and I was gaining slightly in the mpg department. So later down the road when I eventually upgraded to a 2012 (6.7L) I decided to delete right away. I still think it was the best thing to do...for me. My opinion, although not expert, is that the egr system still has a way to go. These engines are constantly fighting with heat issues. The direction is certainly correct but the technology is not 100%, yet. Maybe never will be. Depends upon the direction given. The large company's, as stated here, are bound by complicated rules and guidelines. They are following the path that is set out for them. I understand that. Lots of research and development is invested to create the accepted by everyone standards, or the this is what we do today or whatever the higher powers of the time tell us we have to do. But there are options, always. Some good some not so good. But there is always another way to do something. This is how R&D got us here....and the aftermarket. Things are designed that aren't necessarily bound by complicated rules and regulations. Changes are created because of demand. I enjoy that. So now getting back to my only example, what I drive. I have a 2012 F-350 Crew Cab Long Box. I have a larger lift than most care to install, very large, daily driven off road tires and typically heavy for everyday use. I'm around 9000 lbs as a daily driver. I have a race tune that's been installed from day one. I have had no issues whatsoever since 2012 other than recently replacing a broken exhaust stud that created an annoying whistle, repaired by my dealership. I have close to 100k miles on it and maintain it regularly. This is the most reliable truck I've ever had. So, many questions come up. Did I do the right thing? Not following the rules? etc, etc. I cruise around town all day long between 1000-1200 rpm. Correct me if I'm wrong, less rpm is less fuel. I know it's my tire size. It's all torque built into the tune. I can cruise/tow at 70, 80, or even higher if I want at no more than 1500-2000 rpm. Again lower than your standard truck rpm with no power loss. This is good. One of the things I really enjoy about my setup is that when I am at low rpm's and I step into it a bit, it doesn't downshift right away to create power and burn fuel at high rpm's just has gobs of torque to move me a lot quicker. You all can argue about whats more fuel efficient on that one. Another thing is, I have no regeneration cycles, at all and no DPF to refill. This is very good! One of the biggest complaints I hear are the regens that are burning copious amounts of fuel. This is not good. I think I have very reasonable fuel mileage for my setup too. 15-18 mpg on highway and 12-15 around town. Depends on how you step into it. So here I am, big, heavy, lifted and deleted daily driver. What am I doing wrong, or am I? You can all debate my pros and cons of fuel usage or wastage or unnecessary deletions. I could have done many other things to be different, more power, less power, torque splitting. This setup works for me and I feel I'm doing my part in being efficient, compared to other so called ways. Hope this answers some queries being asked. This is just my opinion, Thanks for listening.

 

Hey Ski, what were you getting before tuning unloaded on the highway average? I think you have the 3.55s also. Is that 20 mpg highway unloaded with the DP Tuner or 5*? Thanks.

 

I've recently heard of these guys so I'll share: FORD POWERSTROKE - 2011-2016 6.7L Ford Powerstroke - Chips, Modules & Tuners - Innovative Diesel Performance

https://www.dieselarmy.com/features/...vative-diesel/

I have no experience with them, just passing it on for FYI.

 

* Great point you brought up with the 6.0 liter. From what I've heard, not all guys had problems with theirs. From what I've read the 05s to 07s were improved and more reliable than the 03s and 04s. Another point I've read was that when the 6.0s were used in the heavy duty, commercial market that didn't require EGR, there were no head gasket problems. It's only when they added the EGR systems to the 6.0 engine for the light duty market for federal emissions laws, that's where they ran hot and caused the issues. Someone with more knowledge than I can add more or correct me if need be.

** Yes, I would say a 14 inch lift and 40 inch tires is a large lift that most of us do not want. But GOOD for you. Like you said, if you did not regear, that's why your RPMs are lower.

*** I've heard the regens use about 1.5 gallons or so. I just daily drive mine for now and my DEF lasts about 8k miles.

**** For you to get 15mpg on the highway what speed are you at? And at 18mpg, how fast are you? What tunes are you using? Do you hand calculate the mileage or use an app?

 

 

ADHD....

The best I ever got was on a road trip to Kentucky and it was 18.4 mpg and that was anywhere from 70 to 80 mph depending on traffic. But if I'd kept it 80 or higher, than she'd drop for sure. I have the 3.55s. No doubt winds affect it as well as hills.

 

Well, that is simply not true. I do know how much extra fuel is used during a regen because I track it, which is very simple to do. When my regen message comes up and I notice it, I immediately switch my dash display to my trip odometer (which I reset at every fillup). By a simple calculation of fuel used, average mpg and run time, it is simple to figure fuel used per minute. Especially helpful to do this while on an interstate trip and using cruise control. My regens always run a minimum of 20 minutes so after that amount of time and then again at 30 minutes and 40 minutes, I note the amount of fuel now used.
For instance: Averaging 19.6 mpg at 67 mph, my engine will consume 1.14 gallons of fuel in 20 minutes. If after the 20 minute regen period, my dash shows me that I have used 2.48 gallons of fuel (about 9 mpg) then I know the engine has required an additional 1.36 gallons of fuel for the regen process.

 

I like to TRY and cruise at 60 mph. But have cruised regularly at 70 or 80. Really it gets away on you. Of course my tire road noise increases a bit (Toyos are not too loud for larger tires) but there is hardly any engine noise with my lower rpm's so you really don't 'hear' the speed as we would be accustomed too going quicker. Usually hand calculate.
I can't say I've even seen my regen light come on in the past. Did they have them in 2012? It was deleted quite early on.
My 6.0L was a 2005.

 

The dash says Cleaning exhaust filter and if you don't catch it, you don't know it's doing it, unless you have a digital monitor or phone w an app to see it and EGTs rising. That's where I think Ford dropped the ball -- there should be a dash light that comes on and stays on until complete so you know it's in a regen.

 

Hey bro, any luck figuring out your problem or going to a different tune?

 

They probably dont want to advertise how long it actually takes (and how much fuel is used in a regen). They have it set up so the average person thinks it lasts 5 seconds or however long the light is on.